copyright

[donna plasky]

Here in the US, quite a bit of Cliff's performances are blocked, with a "Warner/Chappell, Harry Fox Agency" tag on them. But I was able to watch/hear The Savage on every YouTube video I tried, including Lee's cardboard box version.

Probably this URL will be blocked in the UK, but here's a link to Phil Kelly playing The Savage.

Cheers,
Donna

[ecca]

Yes it's very hit and miss, I got Phil's version OK but a couple were blocked.
The Cardboard box mix came through unscathed as did my own effort way back in 2004, I think, the first time I'd ever played at a Shadows club ( Warwick)

[Iain Purdon]

Darn good performance too!

[GoldenStreet]

Yes it's very hit and miss, I got Phil's version OK but a couple were blocked.
The Cardboard box mix came through unscathed as did my own effort way back in 2004, I think, the first time I'd ever played at a Shadows club ( Warwick)

The rhythm guitarist slips in one or two minor chords as an interesting variation on the familiar theme.

Bill

[Lee Restarick]

Just to reiterate, my cardboard box mix did have its audio removed, but I went through the dispute process to restore it a few days ago. If the same has happened to your video, the only way restore audio is to click the link to dispute. I can't remember the exact instructions but you then need to click the the option that mentions "Fair Use". I then entered this text as the reason:

"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use."

I'm not sure what country the this copyright act belongs to unfortunately!! (Probably ths US looking at the spelling "favor")

You should within 10 minutes regain your audio as it will run through a video processing procedure. I tried the same procedure about 9 months ago with a dance video I filmed which had the audio removed, the audio is still active today. Just be aware that if the video is highlighted for copyright infringements again, YouTube will probably remove it completely.

To be honest 99% of music based videos on YouTube, I would guess, have copyright issues in one way or another. I could understand any removal if we tried to put one of those dreaded ads at the start to earn a few pence revenue, but we do this for fun and probably don't hinder sales of The Savage in any way. It's probably not a bad idea to give any credits to writers in the description of your video.

If this is felt to be an immoral way to regain your audio by the forum moderators, I do apologise.

[ecca]

If this business of muting takes off then it will kill Youtube stone dead.

Back to the cardboard box mix, I did a similar thing 30 years ago. I'd just had a Yamaha Portapotty 4 track studio and a tiny Yamaha drum machine that sounded appalling by today's standards but it was a revelation at the time, it had pads you could play with your fingers besides various rhythms.
I played all the parts to the Savage and put it on a cassette which I have somewhere. Wrong echo, never heard of a Meazzi then, long since flogged my Copicat.

[buckshot]

Thanks All,
My comp has been down so I am late in thanking all who have spoken to me on this subject.
I wish they ( the persons who have the ownership of these tunes) would get a life. At least we are keeping their tunes alive for future youngens' to listen to , who may even buy the CD themselves of the originals and contibute to their financial future.
Bugger the lot os them!!
Buckshot

[ecca]

That's what I think about the PRS making shops and factories pay a PRS licence, surely they're shooting themselves in the foot ?
I knew many factory bosses that simply wouldn't pay it.
If the tunes aren't heard so much isn't that a bad thing in terms of publicity ?

[Alan Prudhoe]

I notice that even our local fish shop has a framed PRS Licence to cover the music played to the Q (which is always 60s music). Crazy!!!

[bobmiller]

Hi Tom...

Sorry to hear this. You are not alone, I'm afraid. It may be a more serious problem than we realise. It would seem that somebody is trying to claim ownership of the audio tracks of all video versions of The Savage that appear on YouTube!

Lee Restarick has had the same issue with his own "Cardboard Box" version (see http://shadowmusic.bdme.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8208). He said YouTube had informed him that the claim had been made by Warner/Chappell Music, Inc. I assume these are the same people that have requested that your video be muted. I have just checked a few other videos of The Savage. Phil McGarrick's videos of the Shadowers' performance of The Savage at Shadowmania 2012 has been muted. So has the video of Bruce Welch's Shadows 2011 Shadowmania performance. Likewise the home-recorded versions of various Shads fans, such as Lee. Believe it or not, so has the video of Hank and Ben playing the tune at Hank's clinic held in Italy during the late 1990s! If this goes on, I can quite imagine every YouTube cover version of this piece of music being muted. Who knows where this might end? The restriction of all Shadows-related videos on the internet? That would be awful.

Due to the confusing issue of which music publishing companies own which music publishing companies, I am unsure whether Warner/Chappell even own the rights to the tune. But if they do own the copyrights to the Shadows' recordings of The Savage, their ownership does not extend beyond that version. Any version recorded and/or performed by guitarists, tribute bands, etc, is owned solely by the musicians featured in that version and no-one else. As I understand, even EMI/Sony/Polygram/Polydor/Universal (between whom the official Shadows recordings of 1961 and 1989 are owned - as I said, clear as mud!) do not have any say over the copyrights of any recordings or videos of The Savage other than the specific version/s that they own. I believe that not even the person/company who owns the rights to Norrie Paramor's royalties for writing the piece does not have this sort of power over its use. What next? Will they ban everyone from even performing the tune anywhere?

I really can't understand this. I'm even willing to entertain the idea that it's not Warner/Chappell making the claims (why would they?). I know that sounds far-fetched, but so does every other explanation I can think of. If Warner/Chappell genuinely are behind this, they need to seriously get a life. Surely there are serial pirates and bootleggers out there who deserve this sort of treatment over a few enthusiasts who like to play and share cover versions of their favourite tunes. They really do have much, much bigger fish to fry. If it is them, I think it's disgusting.

For now, as Lee did, use YouTube's dispute process and that should get the sound restored, although, as Lee said, I'm not sure if this will solve the problem for you once-and-for-all.

Some detective work is needed and someone needs to contact YouTube. I have some spare time at the moment so I will look into it, contact a few people and see what I can learn/do. This issue will affect a fair few members of this website, so if anyone wishes to contact me with questions, information or suggestions (especially YouTube-related suggestions) please feel free to contact me via PM here or by the email address listed below.

I'll keep you informed.

J

I'm a new member as of this morning. As I understand it, I have made CDs of covers of popular classic songs, including one called 'Shades of The Shadows'. Now, making a CD requires a "Mechanical Copyright Licence" AP2 which costs around 40 - 60p per CD. I asked about YouTube uploads and MCPS didn't seem to be too bothered. "YouTube and the like have their own licencing arrangements" was the answer. I have had a video of still photos of The Shadows, taken from a old music album published by, yes, Warner Chappell, on YouTube. The music is Geronimo, as played by me. Recently I was asked to acknowledge 'third party content' (Warner/Chappell) which I did. That seems to be the end of it. Question.. is the third party content the ownership of the tune or the photos? I have other cover tunes on YouTube with slide-shows of pics taken from Google Images - so far no such reaction.
Bob Miller, Anvil Music.