The Ventures

[wstagner]

The Ventures poor handling by EMI has continued - has anyone compared the CD version of “The 2000 Pound Bee part 2” with the original 1962 vinyl 45 ? Am I the only one who has noticed that the CD version has the brilliant wild (for 1962) lead guitar solo overdub missing!

That missing 2000lb Bee Part Deaux lead issue is world-wide, so unfortunately many of us have noticed it.
It gets worse. Nokie's 1st solo LP for Cream records in Japan (produced by Al Bennett) was originally released w/o any lead track on the entire LP!

[abstamaria]

A very interesting discussion is going on in the Ventures email group (link below). It seems that in some recordings, in particular several pieces in the 1963 album "Ventures in Space," session musicians, and not the Ventures, played. It seems, if I read the posts correctly, that even some lead parts were played by a session guitarist, and not Bob Bogle or Nokie Edwards!

All of which prompted someone to write that he had been trying to emulate the style of different guitarists without knowing it. Very funny, but quite shocking to me. It's like discovering Hank actually didn't play "Apache."

It is somewhat difficult to follow the thread, but it seems some fairly important pieces, such as "Wipe Out" and "Hawaii Five O," weren't played by the Ventures in the original "Ventures" releases at all.

In retrospect, I could see how such an incredible thing could happen. The Ventures had no single clear, defining style or "sound" through the years. Bogle, McGee, and Nokie sounded so different from each other. And so did the Jazzmasters, Mossrites, and whatever else they played through the years. There is some side discussion on how that could not happen to the Shadows, because Hank's style is so distinct. Probably (and I hope) true.

I am still in a bit of a shock as "Ventures in Space," although quite a change from the earlier Ventures albums, was the last Ventures album I bought. I remembered it fondly. There are some things one is better off not knowing!

Andy
Manila

undergroundfire2@yahoogroups.com <undergroundfire2@yahoogroups.com>

[wstagner]

Without having studio logs, I dunno that any of this info is certain.

The Ventures and The Shads toured a lot during the 60's and both had recording committments. I'm sure that those in charge did whatever they needed to to meet those committments.

As I said in my post on the Ventures "club", we all know that both groups perform just peachy live and both are still performing to this day. We should all be grateful as long as we continue to enjoy the music.

[Pedro]

Subsequent to reading this thread i have looked at The ventures on You Tube especially their rendition of 'Apache'. I can say that my old band in Wallasey produced better in 62. We all gave up and got 'proper jobs' as they said those days

[abstamaria]

The information in the Ventures "In Space" thread is given in bits and pieces and I am not certain how reliable the base material is. But, as I understand it, the finding that Nokie Edwards (the Ventures lead then) did not play on some of the tracks - at least 4 I recall - is based on studio logs. Sessionists may, or may not have, played on the others. That is quite a surprise to me, to put it mildly.

Although we lost Bob Bogle last year (his style is very distinct and precious to me), I agree we are lucky the Ventures with Don Wilson and Shadows are still playing and attracting a following. I am grateful for the music of both bands, the melody of the Shadows and the beat of the Ventures.

We are developing the repertoire for the coming season's "Madeleine Cookie Company" shows, and plan to include "Out of Limits" from the "Ventures in Space" album. Manila, with a strong connection with the U.S., was largely a Ventures town, and the "In Space" album was am eye-opening album for local Ventures fans in 1963. It was a bright, shining light that unfortunately was also their last here, as the Beatles took over immediately thereafter and teenagers shed the old and moved on. I wonder if our baby-boomer audience will remember Out of Limits, but we are optimistic they will enjoy it. We'll use Mossrites for the piece! We have two Ventures models!

Pedro, I look back and wish i could say what you did. Unfortunately, we played so badly in the 1960s we had to take normal jobs!

Regards,

Andy

[cockroach]

Andy,

I'm sure I read an article about guitar instrumental music in the USA Guitar Player magazine many years ago, which said that session players often recorded in place of the band members who were out on tour and needed to both earn money from touring as well as new record releases- of which new albums and singles needed to be churned out very often to suit greedy record companies...

I seem to recall that the famous session player Tommy Tedesco may have played the lead on the reocrd of Hawaii-50- it certainly sounds like his style. Hearing Nokie play that tune live on DVD/video footage of Ventures shows sounds different to me- it was played quite 'straight' on the 1968 record -compared with Nokie's version with a few bluesy string bends etc..and Nokie always plays those silly keyboard parts on the record of tunes such as Slaughter on 10th Avenue on the guitar also!

Many bands apparently pleaded with some session guys to keep it simple when they were 'ghosting' on their records, so that they could reproduce the solos live on stage!

Probably doesn't matter after all these years- as you say, we are lucky that Don, Nokie and the Ventures, and the Shadows, the Atlantics and others are still out there playing live in 2010!!!

[Pedro]

Andy,

I'm sure I read an article about guitar instrumental music in the USA Guitar Player magazine many years ago, which said that session players often recorded in place of the band members who were out on tour and needed to both earn money from touring as well as new record releases- of which new albums and singles needed to be churned out very often to suit greedy record companies...

I seem to recall that the famous session player Tommy Tedesco may have played the lead on the reocrd of Hawaii-50- it certainly sounds like his style. Hearing Nokie play that tune live on DVD/video footage of Ventures shows sounds different to me- it was played quite 'straight' on the 1968 record -compared with Nokie's version with a few bluesy string bends etc..and Nokie always plays those silly keyboard parts on the record of tunes such as Slaughter on 10th Avenue on the guitar also!

Many bands apparently pleaded with some session guys to keep it simple when they were 'ghosting' on their records, so that they could reproduce the solos live on stage!

Probably doesn't matter after all these years- as you say, we are lucky that Don, Nokie and the Ventures, and the Shadows, the Atlantics and others are still out there playing live in 2010!!!

Atlantics????

[OLDEREK]

A link to The ATLANTICS for you...........

http://www.theatlantics.com/

[Pedro]

Thanks for that. Never heard of them before even though I have been to Oz dozens of times , albeit on ships.

[abstamaria]

John,

Thank you. I didn't know that. The fact that a session musician (and not Our Hero) might actually have played on a long-cherished recording was a jaw-dropping surprise to me, and I still have to get over that! It does raise a number of philosophical issues (when are the Ventures not the Ventures, and some such), which thankfully we don't have to answer. We'll just be grateful for and enjoy the music. And try to emulate it, regardless!

Best regards,

Andy
Manila