Proposed crowd funded documentary

Only for the Shadows, their music, their members and Shadows-related activity

Moderators: David Martin, dave robinson, Iain Purdon, George Geddes

Re: Proposed crowd funded documentary

Postby MartcasterJunior » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:10 pm

If you want an example of why getting an established broadcaster - let's go with the Beeb - would take your ideas for a documentary and make an utter hash of it, look at the fairly recent Mike Oldfield documentary that was on BBC Four. It was an hour long, covered a reasonable amount of his early life (because it was all told via interviews with himself and his sister), spent a good chunk of time talking about Tubular Bells and the immediate aftermath of that, then covered the 20+ years encompassing his singles chart success, Tubular Bells sequels and move to Ibiza and into dance music in literally the blink of an eye, then spent the remaining 15 minutes talking about his appearance at the 2012 Olympics Opening Ceremony. All of the footage was stuff that the BBC had rights to (studio live performance of TB, 2012 opening ceremony), or footage provided by himself. As a career retrospective it was woeful. It wasn't even that interesting an interview. That's what you'd get with the Beeb - minimal footage of non-BBC-held rights and huge swathes of (interesting) career glossed over.

A much better model would be for an established documentary maker to make it with private funding, with a view to selling worldwide broadcast, streaming and DVD rights. BUT...in order to do that they're going to want to tell the whole story. It has to be interesting enough to pull in the non-hardcore fans; it needs to be warts'n'all. So which ess-than-wholesome bits of The Shads story would you want them to focus on? Jet's drinking? Bruce's depression? John Rostill's death? Whatever acrimony went on around the split in 1990? Because "4 lads make it big in the charts for a few years, kickstart the careers of some guitar heroes, lose Eurovision and then release a bunch of covers albums" isn't going to spark the interest of many private investors or media outlets. I'm paraphrasing massively there, obviously, but without the "interesting" stuff there's not much of a story to tell. That's not to say that we wouldn't want to hear it, but that's why we're all on this site; it's everyone else that you need to sell it to to make it worth it. How successful was the Telstar movie? £22,343 opening weekend returns on a £1.25m budget, and that had some sex, drugs & rock'n'roll in it.
User avatar
MartcasterJunior
 
Posts: 207
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 12:59 am
Full Real Name: Matthew Verrill

Re: Proposed crowd funded documentary

Postby Tigerdaisy » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:34 pm

To most of the public the Shadows and Cliff are squeaky clean and therefore represent little that can sensationalised or used for 'social engineering' as many other well known bands were, especially in the propagation of the drug culture. The Shadows are in some ways a niche phenomenon and although very influential in that they certainly influenced many would be musicians at the time, this is probably of little interest to the TV public. Cliff has had a few documentaries made, but he's a much bigger star, one of Britains major successes. The Shadows are not in the same fame league, although they have a solid cult following, similar I would suggest as the Peddlers who were very popular in late sixties and early seventies.

Exactly who would this documentary be made for- most Shadows fans know all there is to know already. I'm not saying all angles have been covered- for instance much more could be made of Leo Fender and the development of the Strat and how it came to arrive in Britain and more detail of the guitar and the unique term system and Hanks echo systems which really are mostly just quickly skipped over. But really this is nerd territory and unless done very well with an interesting historical context could be just boring for the man on the street.
Tigerdaisy
 
Posts: 361
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:29 pm
Full Real Name: Martin Kay

Re: Proposed crowd funded documentary

Postby drakula63 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:45 pm

Iain Purdon wrote:
drakula63 wrote:I think the BBC are probably the company least likely to do anything about The Shadows!


Having spent my career at the BBC I'd be interested to know why you think so? And also who would be the most likely people?


About a year ago I sent a very detailed proposal to the BBC for a "The Shadows @ the BBC" programme - giving two alternate running orders and all timings etc. I sent it to two different people, Mark Cooper and Charlotte Moore. I never even got an acknowledgement.

Remember we pay their wages and they can't even be bothered to acknowledge a letter. My email address was on both.

This is what suggests to me that the BBC aren't likely to be doing anything about the Shadows any time soon.

As to the most likely...

I honestly think it would have to be an independent production company or producer who would then sell it on. Someone like Jon Brewer who makes a lot of music docs.
Last edited by drakula63 on Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
drakula63
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: U.K.
Full Real Name: Chris Drake

Re: Proposed crowd funded documentary

Postby drakula63 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:53 pm

I agree that every (or almost every) aspect of their career should be touched upon - perhaps, inevitably, more emphasis on the first five years than any other period. And yes, someone with a vested interest in the story would have to oversee things, in order than it is not made a hash of.

Maybe, on reflection, two hours would be enough - one hour for the period 1958-1970 and the second hour for the rest.

I believe there's enough of interest to fill such a programme.

And yes, I fully understand that this true story would have to be told almost like a fictional story or feature film. The central narrative thread would have to be the story and relationship between Hank and Bruce as they are the only 'characters' that go all the way through. They would be the central 'characters' in our tale and everyone else would have to take on secondary roles and revolve around them, as it were. Brian would, of course, be the primary supporting character. Everything would have to be told from Hank and Bruce's point of view.

Likening their story to a feature film and drawing comparisons between this and the 'Telstar' film... I would like to think that a feature film about Cliff and the Shadows (which it would HAVE to be) would be of far greater interest to the general public than a film about Joe Meek. Such a film would, ideally, cover the period 1958 - 1962/1963.
User avatar
drakula63
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: U.K.
Full Real Name: Chris Drake

Re: Proposed crowd funded documentary

Postby martcaster » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:43 am

Just a wee thought on this. Has anyone contacted Hank/Bruce/Brian/Cliff/ Licorice to ask their thoughts on the idea. Perhaps they're content to let sleeping dogs lie. Should anyone really want to know anything about the Shads history there are sites similar to this and historic records galore to explore, Just a thought, y'know.
Love as always,
Mart
User avatar
martcaster
 
Posts: 227
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:57 pm
Full Real Name: Martin Verrill

Re: Proposed crowd funded documentary

Postby drakula63 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:32 am

martcaster wrote:Just a wee thought on this. Has anyone contacted Hank/Bruce/Brian/Cliff/ Licorice to ask their thoughts on the idea. Perhaps they're content to let sleeping dogs lie. Should anyone really want to know anything about the Shads history there are sites similar to this and historic records galore to explore, Just a thought, y'know.
Love as always,
Mart


I can't offhand think of any reason whatsoever why any of the above would not be happy to sit down in front of a camera and talk about their glory days in the band that made them rich and famous and launched a thousand others! Can you?

Cliff mentions them at every possible opportunity and Brian has got a book coming out this year. I would be more than happy to bet that if they were approached to do some interviews they'd say yes. And I say this as someone who, on camera, has sat and talked to Brian Bennett and Alan Hawkshaw about... the SHADOWS!
User avatar
drakula63
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: U.K.
Full Real Name: Chris Drake

Re: Proposed crowd funded documentary

Postby Iain Purdon » Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:33 pm

drakula63 wrote:About a year ago I sent a very detailed proposal to the BBC ... I never even got an acknowledgement.

That is not good behaviour on the part of a BBC exec.

drakula63 wrote:I honestly think it would have to be an independent production company or producer who would then sell it on.

Yes that is definitely the way to go. Programme-making is increasingly being farmed out, leaving the broadcasters to become more like publishers. If you still have the proposal, I suggest you send it to one (or more) of the independent TV production houses. It might be worth posting it by registered letter to make more certain of getting a reply ;)
Iain Purdon
site admin group
User avatar
Iain Purdon
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3326
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:21 pm
Location: Axmouth, Devon
Full Real Name: Iain Purdon

Re: Proposed crowd funded documentary

Postby Fenderman » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:15 pm

The only lengthy interview i've seen of the Shadows (and it was only Hank and Bruce with Brian at the end) was the bonus at the end of the Live 2004 DVD, they talked in length about their career. Despite the passage of time they do have good memories and Bruce and Brian appeared with Rick Wakeman on Face to face and again spoke at length, but sadly no Hank although he was on Needle Time around the same time.
So, in case someone didn't want to be interviewed, clips from any of these could be used.
Fenderman
 
Posts: 1047
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:17 pm
Full Real Name: Alexander Thomson

Re: Proposed crowd funded documentary

Postby drakula63 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:27 am

Iain Purdon wrote:
drakula63 wrote:About a year ago I sent a very detailed proposal to the BBC ... I never even got an acknowledgement.

That is not good behaviour on the part of a BBC exec.

drakula63 wrote:I honestly think it would have to be an independent production company or producer who would then sell it on.

Yes that is definitely the way to go. Programme-making is increasingly being farmed out, leaving the broadcasters to become more like publishers. If you still have the proposal, I suggest you send it to one (or more) of the independent TV production houses. It might be worth posting it by registered letter to make more certain of getting a reply ;)



Sadly, I think the BBC has gone downhill in recent years/decades. There was a time when you would ALWAYS get a reply - and I'm talking about an old fashioned letter! An email costs nothing. It often seems to me that if you ask a question these days, and the answer is going to be no, the person just doesn't bother to reply and leaves it up to you to work it out! A shame, but then a lot of things have gone downhill now, not just arrogant BBC execs.

I can't really be bothered to pursue the Shadows at the BBC idea - it was primarily a BBC clips show - and if the BBC themselves can't be bothered to even acknowledge my letters, then this shows how interested they are. And still they clog up BBC Four's schedules with music docs they've already shown again and again and again...

The sad thing is, I mentioned this about four years ago to a friend of mine who works at the BBC up in Salford as an editor (also a dab hand at computer graphics) and he could have got all the footage and knocked it together in a couple of hours. Sadly, we fell out early last year and as he hadn't done anything with it by then, I can't see it ever happening now. That was probably the best opportunity, sadly now lost...
User avatar
drakula63
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: U.K.
Full Real Name: Chris Drake

Re: Proposed crowd funded documentary

Postby drakula63 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:17 pm

Going back to the subject of documentaries.

This three-part interview with director/editor Rob McCallum on the crowdfunded documentary he has just finished for the band KITTIE is very interesting.

I actually supported this indiegogo project and although I now cannot remember the details, they achieved their goal in an extrenely short amount of time and by the time the funding period had ended, had greatly exceeded it.

What I found particularly interesting was how Rob talks about the differences between making a documentary for the 'fans' or one for the more casual consumer. This point could equally be made for any documentary about the Shadows. Who would you be selling it to? The fans who already know the story inside out but want something 'special' or the general public who may know very little beyond the fact that they were Cliff's backing group and had a huge hit with 'Apache'. Do you choose to go for one market or the other or try to go somewhere in between?

What's also now quite poignant is that Rob mentions, more than once, that he was having trouble finding an end-point for the documentary as a natural 'ending' was somehow missing. Sadly, the band's bassist - Trish Doan, who had actually been instrumental in getting Rob involved in the first place - died in February this year.


http://robmccallumfilms.com/?p=327


P.S I just checked. They originally wanted $20,000. They ended up getting in excess of $40,000 !!! That's the way to do it!
User avatar
drakula63
 
Posts: 2631
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: U.K.
Full Real Name: Chris Drake

PreviousNext

Return to The Shadows

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests

Ads by Google
These advertisements are selected and placed by Google to assist with the cost of site maintenance.
ShadowMusic is not responsible for the content of external advertisements.