Shadows Live at the BBC????

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Re: Shadows Live at the BBC????

Postby drakula63 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:39 am

UlrichS wrote:Hi all,

It took a few days more to get the CD on the continent, so please excuse the late comment.

The given dates are most likely the recording dates as they don't fit in with the two radio programmes which mainly broadcasted these recordings, 'Saturday Club' and 'Top Of The Pops'.
All tracks up to 'Naughty Nippon Nights' have been featured in both programmes, with the exception of 'I Met A Girl' and 'Shindig' which were never transmitted on 'Saturday Club'.
I have never heard a complete programme of 'Saturday Club", but I have complete recordings of all TOTP programmes featuring Shadows tracks. They were all available on BBC Transcription Discs.
I have compared the tracks from the CD with the TOTP recordings. As expected, they are identical, even all the tracks on the CD with talking into, over or past them by Brian Matthew are exactly as on the Transcription Discs. Additionally, Keith Skues took over from Brian Matthew with Saturday Club #469 (30.09.1967), so 'The Wild Roses', 'Evening Glow' and 'Naughty Nippon Nights' which have Brian Matthew talking cannot origin from 'Saturday Club'.
I am quite sure that the first 16 tracks from the CD have been taken from recordings which were made by the BBC for the Transcription Disc Service.

As was already said, 'Apache' is definitely not from John Peel's "Sounds On Sunday" programme, which was broadcasted on 24.03.1974. However, I could not find out any programme where this track could have come from.

If the BBC should be interested in a volume 2 - AND - the TOTP recordings are the only source, my suggestion would be TOTP # 326 from February 1971 ('Throw Down A Line', 'You're Burning Bridges' and 'Faithful'), TOTP #349 from July 1971 (talk with Hank, Bruce & John incl. reciting a poem, 'Silvery Rain', 'Lady Of The Morning' and 'Brownie Kentucky') and TOTP 392 from May 1972 ('Marmaduke', 'Mr. Sun' and 'Lonesome Mole').
From the Transcription Discs of "The Star Show", which was recorded for the overseas British Forces Broadcast Service only, the programmes #20 and #24 could add recordings of 'Dance On', 'The Boys', 'Nivram and 'Foot Tapper', all with Brian Locking on bass guitar.

Apologies for taking your time, the bean counter in me took over.

Ulrich


Your suggestion for a volume 2 would seem to tally with mine, except for my inclusion of the recordings thus far not used from the Sounds on Sunday show. In addition to this, another one has occurred to me, what about the version of 'Jungle Jam' that they performed on the 'Cilla Black Show' in '74. This is different to both the original and SoS versions and was almost certainly recorded specially for the show. I'll accept, however, that a decent quality copy of this audio is unlikely to exist.

It is still something of a mystery as to where some of the tracks were used and it seems that the researcher didn't do the best job in the world. Great selection of material, but odd to claim that something was used in a radio show in 1973 that didn't actually exist by then. Until recently I hadn't realised that there was a radio version of Top of the Pops which was completely unrelated to the TV version! How odd!

I am hoping that more information will come to light.
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Re: Shadows Live at the BBC????

Postby alewis41 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:03 pm

Until recently I hadn't realised that there was a radio version of Top of the Pops which was completely unrelated to the TV version! How odd!


I didn't know that until 5 minutes ago! Hence my question to Ulrich. Never heard of that before.

Andrew
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Re: Shadows Live at the BBC????

Postby Arpeggio » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:11 pm

Hi Ulrich (& everyone). "Apache" is a mystery. I will have to revisit all of my old notes. It must be from 1973 I think - possibly for "Top Gear"?? I have found a reference in my notes to a version of "Apache" being recorded on 28 / 11 / 1973...but no further info. to go with it!! However...if the version of "Apache" on the CD is not the one from "Sounds On Sunday" (March, 1974)...then it must be this one I suspect!!

MW & F. The BBC Archives hold the following tracks:

Faithful / You're Burning Bridges / Throw Down A Line / My Home Town (Rec. 18 / 01 / 1971

Brownie Kentucky / Lady Of The Morning / You're Burning Bridges#2 / Silvery Rain (Rec. 30 / 06 / 1971)

Marmaduke / Lonesome Mole / Strike A Light / Mr Sun (Rec. 16 / 03 / 1972)

Confusion about "The Wild Roses" etc. It was recorded on 30 / 11 / 1967. Although used on the Dave Symonds Show (January, 1968) - "T W Roses" was definitely utilised on Saturday Club (16 / 12 / 1967).

"Evening Glow" / "N N Nights" etc (rec. 08 / 02 / 1968) were NOT used on S Club. I guess the BBC simply arranged for Brian Matthew to drop by when the Shads were recording (30 / 11 / 1967 & 08 / 02 / 1968). It would have only taken a few minutes to do the interviews & voiceovers).

Best wishes, Rob
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Re: Shadows Live at the BBC????

Postby Arpeggio » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:41 pm

Trying to answer my own question still!!! It's well known that they did record "J Jam" / "T A A Touch Me" / "Nivram " / "W Land" for Top Gear on December 10th, 1973 and those tracks were broadcast on Christmas Day 1973. So where does "Apache" (rec. 28 / 11/ 1973) fit in? There is reference to a Radio International series of transcription discs. Programme (LP) #476 lists: "Apache" / "Turn Around & Touch Me" + ( 'Extra') "The Rise And Fall Of Flingel Bunt" - but the date is unspecified. It could be 1974, with the tracks derived from Sounds On Sunday. Curioser and Curioser!!!
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Re: Shadows Live at the BBC????

Postby drakula63 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:49 pm

So there are 12 MWF tracks if we include both versions of Burning Bridges. So even if we reduce that to 11, that's still an impressive tally. Surely even as a group with a cult following these recordings would sell and would be worth releasing. Put them on a 'Shadows' CD with the other tracks already mentioned and it would make a brilliant Vol 2.

Throw Down a Line
You're Burning Bridges (x2)
Faithful
Silvery Rain
Lady of the Morning
Brownie Kentucky
Marmaduke
Mr. Sun
Lonesome Mole

My Home Town
Strike a Light
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Re: Shadows Live at the BBC????

Postby Arpeggio » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:21 pm

I do so agree Chris, but the people behind these projects move in mysterious and not always logical ways. To be honest, I cannot for the life of me think why on earth would they leave off the remaining handful of tracks at their disposal. It makes no sense at all. Likewise the crass 'error' of substituting the EMI versions of 2 of the tracks. The total lack of sleeve notes. Still, it IS better than nothing and it IS cheap. But...it is also criminal...simply because...ALL of the tracks could have been released in 2002, 2004, 2005, 2008, 2009, 2010 or indeed at any time during the past 20 years. Plus (back in the day), I did ALL of the research for both EMI and the BBC for free. It was a labour of love. Neither EMI nor the BBC were prepared to pay any of their own employees / researchers to do it. But, once the whole project began to be mired in stupid technicalities, legalise etc...I wastreated very shabbily (as many ppeople can attest) by both organisations. Yes...it was a ' bitter pill'. So, I am happy that this release is finally out.,,but disappointed by the cock ups!!!
(PS.,,Tony Hoffman did a lot of the initial spadework too - only to be subsequently and undeservedly fobbed off. All 'history' now, but it still rankles I'm sure.)
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Re: Shadows Live at the BBC????

Postby alewis41 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:53 pm

A "MWF Live at the BBC" would be wonderful but I understand that there would be limited interest outside the Shads world.

This seems like a good moment to thank Rob and Tony for all their efforts regarding this release and many other releases over the past 20 years!

Let's hope we don't have to wait another 20 years for Volume 2.

Andrew
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Re: Shadows Live at the BBC????

Postby UlrichS » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:58 pm

Hi Rob and all interested,

Like you I instantly thought that this mysterious "Apache" would be the one used on "Top Gear". However, the Shadows were only once on this programme: 25. December 1973, hosted by John Peel. From the 'John Peel session' (10.12.1973) four tracks were broadcasted: "Nivram", "Jungle Jam", "Turn Around And Touch Me" and "Wonderful Land". The full track listing is in the BBC Written Archives Centre.

Regarding the M W & F tracks:

"Faithful", "Your Burning Bridges" and "Throw Down A Line" (all recorded 18.01.1971) were used for the BBC Radio TOTP #326, aired on 03.02.1971.

"Faithful", "My Home Town" and "You're Burning Bridges" (all from 18.01.1971) were used for the BBC TV TOTP broadcasted on 18.02.1971.
These three tracks were also used in the BBC TV "It's Cliff Richard" #8, broadcasted on 20.02.1971.

BBC Radio TOTP #349 included "Silvery Rain", "Lady Of The Morning" and "Brownie Kentucky", all from the 30.06.1971 recording session.

BBC Radio TOTP #392 had "Marmaduke", "Mr. Sun" and "Lonesome Mole" from the 16.03.1972 recording.

For "You're Burning Bridges #2" (rec. 30.06.1971) and "Strike A Light" (rec. 16.03.1972) I could not find any programme in which they were used.

Regarding "The Wild Roses" (rec. 30.11.1967) it did not object that it was used on Saturday Club. What I tried to express is that the recording on the CD is the one as used on TOTP because of the talking of Brian Matthews, who no longer hosted Saturday Club at that time. (Thanks for the info about the Dave Symonds Show, I was not aware of that one.)

When I was looking up these details I found some more gems for a Vol. 2 CD:
- Hank Marvin - "Break Another Dawn" backed by The Trash (BBC TV "Top Of The Pops", broadc. 13.08.1970)
- Marvin, Welch & Farrar - "Take Her Away" (BBC TV "It's Cliff Richard", broadc. 06.03.1971)
- Marvin, Welch & Farrar - "Wish You Were Here" (BBC TV "It's Cliff Richard", broadc. 20.03.1971)
- Marvin & Farrar - "Music Makes My Day" (BBC TV "It's Cliff Richard". broadc. 24.08.1974)

Best wishes,
Ulrich
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Re: Shadows Live at the BBC????

Postby Arpeggio » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:17 pm

Hello Urich,
Thanks, as ever, for your very informed posts. "You're Burning Bridges"(#2) was broadcast on the Tony Brandon Show (Wednesday August 18th, 1971) and the Terry Wogan Show (Thursday, August 26th, 1971). "Strike A Light" was broadcast on the Jimmy Young Show (Thursday, April 6th, 1972), The Johhny Walker Show (Monday, April 3rd, 1972) and also the Dave Lee Travis Show (Monday, April 10th, 1972). Yes.....I take your point about Brian Matthew not being the host of Saturday Club during November / December, 1967.

Bests....Rob
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Re: Shadows Live at the BBC????

Postby UlrichS » Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:36 pm

Hi Rob,

Many thanks for the info, very much appreciated.

Best wishes,

Ulrich
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