Atlantis guitar

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Re: Atlantis guitar

Postby fenderplucker » Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:22 am

Geronimo and Atlantis were recorded on 13th November 1962
Agreed, I was relying upon hazy memory!

I don't know what you mean about "conspiracy theories", but The Shadows were testing Burns prototypes as early as the second half of 1962 (though the instruments weren't seen in public until spring 1964, which is an entirely different thing).
Agreed, as mentioned by Hank in his column in the October 25th, 1963 edition of the New Musical Express that he had started playing it but it needed a few adjustments.

The group's intention to have a change from Fenders was actually announced as early as the first week of May 1962, in the Associated-Rediffusion TV programme "Dan Farson Meets The Shadows" (which I think included Jet, so must have been recorded at least some weeks earlier than that).
Agreed, also verified by documented comments from Jim Burns.

Licorice Locking himself stated on several occasions that some tunes recorded in late 1962 (including both Atlantis and Geronimo) were played on a Burns guitar.
Here we get into conspiracy territory, a but like Bruce saying that he never used a Tele. And was Locking's recollection more accurate than Hank who claims that it was recorded on a Strat ?

What's the difficulty with any of that?
The difficulty is there are two conflicting recollections, one from the person who actually played the tune and says it was a Strat. As far as I know there is no other documented evidence.

Paul.
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Re: Atlantis guitar

Postby AlanMcKillop » Sun Dec 05, 2021 2:48 pm

For what it’s worth, Lic could also have been confused as to what guitar was used as it was during the period The Shads moved to all white strats before changing the scratch plates to tortoise shell colour. His recollection of white guitars may have led him to think that it was a Burns.
A final thought, I do remember following Hanks column and I do recall him talking about testing the new Burns in the studio, but to my recollection, he never mentioned using it in a recording before it’s formal introduction.
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Re: Atlantis guitar

Postby dave robinson » Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:34 pm

JimN wrote:
fenderplucker wrote:I agree with Phil, Strat all the way.

Why? Well, firstly, Atlantis was recorded in December 1962, about a year before Hank started using the Burns (conspiracy theories about earlier prototypes are not supported by documented conversations with either Hank or Jim Burns) and, secondly, the Strat nails the Atlantis tone so why look further?

Paul.


Geronimo and Atlantis were recorded on 13th November 1962.

I don't know what you mean about "conspiracy theories", but The Shadows were testing Burns prototypes as early as the second half of 1962 (though the instruments weren't seen in public until spring 1964, which is an entirely different thing).

The group's intention to have a change from Fenders was actually announced as early as the first week of May 1962, in the Associated-Rediffusion TV programme "Dan Farson Meets The Shadows" (which I think included Jet, so must have been recorded at least some weeks earlier than that).

The difficulty for me is that Licorice stayed with me several times and during those visits told me it was a Strat - go figure. :|

Licorice Locking himself stated on several occasions that some tunes recorded in late 1962 (including both Atlantis and Geronimo) were played on a Burns guitar.

What's the difficulty with any of that?


The difficulty for me was that Licorice stayed with me several times and during those visits told me that it was definitely a Strat - go figure. :|
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Re: Atlantis guitar

Postby MikeAB » Sun Dec 05, 2021 5:03 pm

My first post suggested both guitars were used - hence the conflicting memories.

I am not much of a player but I have both guitars and I prefer the Strat for accurate damping and indeed for its sweeter damped sound. The stereo split on Atlantis would allow for that damped section to be different in some fundamental way. Also I have a feeling there was less string damping going on in the Burns era. Nonsense I expect but still fascinating.
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Re: Atlantis guitar

Postby fenderplucker » Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:58 am

From The Shadows, The Burns Years, a quote from Tony Hoffman that I am sure you have all seen:

"I asked Hank Marvin via email whether it was a Burns on the record and his reply was:

"The guitar used on Atlantis was a Fender Stratocaster with Rosewood neck. We did not approach Jimmy Burns with the idea of a Burns designed for the Shads until the summer of 1963, and did not get the finalised burns guitars until the end of that year. Any fans who saw Cliff and ourselves at the ABC in Blackpool for the Summer Show in '63 would no doubt remember that we were still using Strats"

Hank has made similar comments to me.

So I say again, the "difficulty" is indeed that there are conflicting personal recollections and apparently no documented evidence that could settle the issue.

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Re: Atlantis guitar

Postby Rover » Tue Dec 07, 2021 1:45 pm

Licorice stated with certainty that Hank used a Burns, I believe that Hank also said that it could have been Burns, if you listen to the original recording, my ears detect a Burns sound, so I am convinced even if no one else is.
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Re: Atlantis guitar

Postby bgohara » Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:51 pm

Hank has been unambiguous on this - he has said it was definitely a strat
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Re: Atlantis guitar

Postby nivramarvin » Tue Dec 07, 2021 4:53 pm

Rover wrote:Licorice stated with certainty that Hank used a Burns, I believe that Hank also said that it could have been Burns, if you listen to the original recording, my ears detect a Burns sound, so I am convinced even if no one else is.

I always thought to hear a Burns. I wonder whether this cannot be analyzed with the appropriate technical means.
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Re: Atlantis guitar

Postby MartinC » Thu Dec 09, 2021 12:13 pm

I rarely post on here because I don't (yet!) have the depth of knowledge about The Shadows that many of you have. That said, I'm a guitarist and have been a fan since my teens (am now 52).

For me, the Abbey Road release was a turning point. As you all know, it features Atlantis without strings. About 25 years ago, I picked up the original single of Atlantis and I immediately thought, "is that a Burns?'. To my ears, Hank's tone is fuller and thicker than, for example, Shindig (which I believe was released later in '63). As many of us will know, compression can thicken up a guitar sound and also make it more 'defined'. I wonder if the Abbey Road team dialled in some comp to ensure that the Strat's level in the 'damped' section matched that of the main melody.
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Re: Atlantis guitar

Postby JimN » Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:17 pm

MartinC wrote:I rarely post on here because I don't (yet!) have the depth of knowledge about The Shadows that many of you have. That said, I'm a guitarist and have been a fan since my teens (am now 52).

For me, the Abbey Road release was a turning point. As you all know, it features Atlantis without strings. About 25 years ago, I picked up the original single of Atlantis and I immediately thought, "is that a Burns?'. To my ears, Hank's tone is fuller and thicker than, for example, Shindig (which I believe was released later in '63). As many of us will know, compression can thicken up a guitar sound and also make it more 'defined'. I wonder if the Abbey Road team dialled in some comp to ensure that the Strat's level in the 'damped' section matched that of the main melody.


The Shadows' 1963 45 single releases came in this order (recording dates appended in brackets):

Foot Tapper (8th January 1963)

Atlantis (13th November 1962)

Shindig (1st September 1963)

Geronimo (13th November 1962).

Ever since development of the technology for adding compression to audio recordings, use of it has been absolutely normal for commercial recordings. Part of the sound of The Shadows (as indeed, part of everyone's recorded sound at the time, including The Beatles) is owed to those who designed the Fairchild units in use at Abbey Road and other studios. Compression was originally probably more to do with getting the maximum out of vinyl (and later, out of retail-end tape) as with anything else. Use to produce an effect came later.
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