ECHO BOX

[tony parnham]

Hi Amanda,
Yes that was it I believe.
Tony

[jimuc]

Hi All
Just thought I'd put in my pennyworth.
I am more than happy with my Q20.
I really don't know how TVS can justify their prices. OK, there has been a lot of technology involved in the development etc.but surely a reduction in price would boost sales - just a thought !!!
On the subject of the ESE Echomatic, I am attaching a copy of an email I received from GUY which would appear to put another angle on the subject.
Cheers JIM

Hi Jim,

I'm glad you are happy with the information we gave you. One thing I will
mention is that I currently have 2 Echomatic VI Special Editions being built
and 1 Echomatic IVR, I also have 1 Echomatic IVR in stock actually ready to
go. These will be the last new models made and sold. This is because of
rising manufacturing costs. Just thought I'd make you aware.

Regards

Guy

[tony parnham]

Hi Jimuc,
What approx date would you have received this from Guy, is it recent or some time ago.
Tony

[jimuc]

Tony,
It was dated 27/6/09
Cheers JIM

[fenderplucker]

Well, the lead comments on the Living Doll sound file seems to have generated a lot of comment about the TVS3 and so I thought I might set the record straight with some facts.

1. Fortunately for us, the number of people who are saying that the sound on the current tour, and in particular Hank’s sound using the TVS3, is the best live concert sound in a long time, far outweighs the few who disagree. Here is just a sample of the favourable comments posted:

• The Shadows got a great reception and Hank's sound was never better live in my mind - better than Shads final tour tones. Overall sound and lighting was excellent and the fast numbers really rocked.

• The band was superb as was the sound in a place not renouned for good sound. The show was a resounding success with,in all fairness,a quite equal appreciation by the crowd of both Cliff and the Shads. It was a pleasure to see them together again,it's the way it should be. You have something great to look forward to. Hank's sound has returned to nearer the old sound we all love.

• Des - totally agree - both Cliff & the Shads were terrific. Really enjoyed it. And you're right - Hank's guitar sound was terrific.

• The sound was fantastic. When the band let rip on things like Dynamite, Nine Times Out Of Ten and The Savage they were just brilliant!
It's a long time since I heard The Shadows sounding so good. What a band!

• I mentioned how much I liked his guitar tone, that it had everything, a lot of tone, clear but not overbright, almost 3 dimensional. He told me he is using the non top boost JMI amps and not the top boost ones, Fender Custom Shop 54 pickups on the Strats, and the TVS3 echoes, also mentioning the Meazzi sound preamp built in. I have to say I enjoyed the overall performance, it couldn't get much closer to the original sound with today's equipment, and if anything, Hank's guitar tones were better than I have ever heard from him, either live or on recordings.
• The sound was brilliant and certainly got back to the old rocking sound. With all the threads on sounds I would be really happy if I could get Hank's sound from last night
• Great show....Hank certainly has that pre 1964 sound.......
• Their first set seemed to lack energy but their second set was far more energised and there were occasional hints of a good old Hank sound coming through.
• Every one has been saying that THAT SOUND is back, at least with some of the numbers played on the tour, and it is often said that HBM's sound is far better than during the 2004 tour: do you agree with these "continental" comments?

• Yes the sound of Hank was great ! Regarding the Hank Marvin guitar effect (TVS3), if you were close to the stage, the effect was great but if you were at the oposite of the stage, the effetc was low (near dry sound), but this is a normal acoustic effect, that why, when we play live, we have to put more level effect on stage than needed to get the right effect for the audience...

• I thought it was a brilliant show and Hank sounded good to me.
• I have seen the Shadows on countless occasions and all of Hanks tours and, personally this is the best I have ever seen & heard them play.

• Yes it was a fantastic show and the best I've heard The Shadows in a very long time, all the instruments seperated in the mix and Hank's sound back the way we like it tonewise.

• Fantastic show and like Dave said; Hank's sound was spot on.

• I saw the 'show' last night and, forgive me if this has already been hammered on about, I think I've just heard Hank and the boys and their best in 'modern' times. Great to see (and hear) Hank using an AC30 and what a tone. To me it has answered all the critics who have said 'even Hank can't get 'that' sound again. Oh boy, he can!

• Hanks sound was good in the first half, but I think they must have tweaked something during the interval, as his sound in the second half was superb - I could feel the hairs standing up on the back of my neck during Apache.

There will of course always be some contrary opinions (and it is also possible that the sound in some venues or audience locations is better than others), but we are very happy with the majority response.

2. Comments the cost of the TVS3 being “way too expensive…”; “far too prohibitive…”; “unjustified…” etc, cannot be supported unless you know the cost structure of producing such a unit. The components account for about half the cost of the unit (and that is after finding the lowest cost sources from around the world), the units are hand made and take a couple of weeks each to produce (in small batches) and mass production is simply not an option for such a limited market (there are not many people who actually want to recreate the early sound of a Meazzi and there are many relative cheap units that are perfectly adequate for modern guitarists). We have approached some electronics manufacturers and they are simply not interested in such small numbers and lean margins. However, we accept that they are expensive and this may rule them out for many. But there are also many who have purchased the units and are extremely happy with their investments.

3. On the question of which units “sounds best”, that will always be a subjective assessment and some actually prefer the more high fidelity echoes of an ESE or Atlantis. However, for us the objective assessment is how close it sounds to the original recordings and Meazzis.

In developing the TVS3 we assessed how close it was sounding to Meazzis and original recordings in two ways. One was “blind” testing comparing various units against Meazzi tube tape units and, out of the Q20’s, Q2’s Magicstomps, ESE’s, Atlantis and Zooms tested, the TVS3 was the only unit that could not be consistently identified as being different to the Meazzi. The second way, recognising that there may be something special about the drum Meazzis (and not having one for direct comparison), is by trying to reproduce the sound of the early Shadows tunes. From the comments we have received on the tunes posted on the TVS website and these chat sites it would appear that the TVS3 does indeed come very close.

4. Finally, the TVS3 has the additional advantage of being completely programmable, even though it is an analogue unit. So echoes from other machines like Long Toms, Rolands, Echoplexes, Binsons, Echolettes etc and any other non-machine-specific echoes can be reproduced and selected at will.

Regards,

Paul.

[AlanMcKillop]

Don't overlook the effect of the JMI's on Hank's sound, which only started to be a bit wooly after he ditched his Matchless circa 1995/96.

[fenderplucker]

Hi Alan,
Quite right, and also the CS54 pickups (and having Hank plucking the strings no doubt helps a bit too!!).
It is all part of a package that seems to be working very well .
Regards,
Paul.

[stagetech]

Hi Paul,
I was at sheffield and the sound was fantastic. I am not knocking the product. This was more of a tongue in cheek look at the individuals who will spend any amount of money, to buy anything Hank has used, in the belief that it will give them that sound. It won't.

There are simply too many variables. For me, and I suspect the majority, the aim is to achieve a close simulation that puts a smile on your face when you actually manage to play it clean and it sounds good. Using equipment such as the TVS3 will ultimately help a good guitarist achieve that quality live sound. But many are trying to emulate the early sound to a point that it sounds just like the record, it won,t happen. Anything that is different, from the valve mixing desk of old studios to the atmosphere affects sound. Oh, and then there is that old boy Hank, who is pretty usefull at plucking a string.

I think the product is first class, I was most impressed with the sound. But as I do not play for a living, even part time, it would not be justifiable. But as stated there are some, who will buy even if the price were greater and who most likely do not play to a high standard.

There is a good market for this kind of product, that is why there are so many variants of echo products aimed at the shadows sound. The market for pro units is not large, all hand made equipment is justifiably more expensive than a massed produced unit. Perhaps there should be a TVS3 Pro. And a taiwan mass produced version for the home player that could be sold for £250, it can be done for that price and would offset the hand build cost version.

Lets face it, we would all like the Shads to go into a studio and produce an album of new, original material. Not cover versions. Now lets assume, for one tune Hank plays lead on a shoebox guitar, Bruce plays rhythm on a cigar box guitar and Brian uses a combination of biscuit tin and quality street tins as drums. They would most likely make a reasonable job of producing a tune from it, now if that became a hit! Then people would be buying quality street, shoes, and cigars and most likely sound like a load of wailing banshees, whilst at the same time discussing if a 2008 tin gives a better sound than a 2009.
Perhaps there should be a little less disecting of every thing they they do, and we should enjoy the music. When it reaches the stage that we want to use technology to recreate original faults in old technology, I think we have lost the plot.

[fenderplucker]

Hi stagetech,

You said: When it reaches the stage that we want to use technology to recreate original faults in old technology, I think we have lost the plot.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree. Presumably by your thoughts we should all stop using tube amps and not buy vintage repro guitars or pickups (and certainly not even think about an Oasis Strat at over twice the price of a TVS3). And programmers of digital amp simulators and effects units should be admonished for even thinking about introducing any distortion or wow and flutter.

You also said: And a taiwan mass produced version for the home player that could be sold for £250, it can be done for that price and would offset the hand build cost version.

On what basis do you make such a statement? I have looked at costings in mass-produced numbers up to 1000 units and even then could only get the cost down to about 50% of the current amount (given that one has also to consider the setup costs, marketing costs and opportunity cost of capital). Do you really think there is such a market at that price amongst Shadows fans?? Looking at much larger numbers and a more general market doesn't stack up either since the costs of the analog components are inherently higher than their digital counterparts (since they are now less in demand) and you could never compete at the budget end of the market that is adequately served by cheaper digital units.

Regards,

Paul.

[Gary Allen]

Getting back to the first post...Yes....Id love one for christmas....I too am guilty of negative comments comparing the tvs to other products..I just think people want to hear all the important factors come out of one box and lets face it...Its down to the player at the end of the day. I ve seen a couple of shows of the recent tour and like others I ve wondered why the echo sounded low.This is Hanks decision and he knows best.We re trying to copy him and not the other way round...Like i said..Yes ..Id love one for christmas....GARY