"FBI" (RE-WORKED)

[Phil.c]

Hi All,

About a year and a half ago I posted FBI on the other forums, it turned out ok, I was reasonably pleased with it, but a couple of weeks ago I had another listen and found there was lot more I cound have done with it to make it better and closer.

The original. As we all know, played by four young men at Abbey Road. This type of music was relatively new, it was experimental time.
The track is "RAW" and it was played with attitude!

The sounds are a mixture of everything and to try and do a copy is nigh on impossible Overdriven guitars and echo's, the reverb room, amps, mics, I could go on and on.

The reason for trying to produce (and I say trying) is two-fold, firstly, it's a challenge and I like challenges, and secondly, by delving deeply into the music we find out how things were done, what effects were used and also what overdubs, if any?

The first thing I noticed when listening to my old FBI was the bass.

For these oldies I usually set up the bass to sound like South of the Border and 36-24-36, but on FBI the bass does'nt have that woody and short sustain sound, it actually rings.

The drums have more of a tapping sound with regards to the high hat and the ride in the chorus's comes and goes.

The lead sound is something else, it is really forced, the strings sound as though they have just about had it, especially the low parts, Hank sound as though he is really struggleing to get the sound out.

The strings on my old Strat were reasonably new when I did the re-record, they just did'nt sound right, I had two choices, either wait for another three or for months for them to deaden or try to doctor them, I went for the latter ::)
Oil was added, this did'nt work so grease was rubbed in, this worked to a certain extent.
The strings were played really hard...and I mean really hard!

One of the hardest sounds to reproduce for this tune was the A-E that runs right through, it has a "Boing" to it which a bass alone does'nt produce.

The original has a few overdubs, you have to listen closely for them but they give the mix it's "guts".

I have spent months in total on this and I can say that it's closer than my last try, it will never be 100% and there will always be something to correct or add but it's time for a break now

FBI has been posted many times and for a lot of us, we have this idea of how it sounds.

Please listen to the first link, it's edited snippets of the original Shadows recording and you will familiarize yourselves with what it really sounds like.

1963 Strat, TVS3, VoxAC30H2, FenderJazz Bass and BFD2 Drums.

Thanks for listening.

Phil

[Mike Honey]

mmm...It's close but I think the answer is in your signature. All that gear isnt going to give you the same sound as that used 50 years ago.
I was always told that the sound started with your fingers and ended with your ears. Its the bits inbetween that are so hard to get right lol!!

mike

[Phil.c]

Mike,

The gear in my signature is there for a reason and not just for show, it does a job It's also there so other guys that are into recording and mixing tracks can see what is being used.

I understand what you are saying about copying music from 50 years ago and I wrote in my first post regarding this :-

[QUOTE] "The sounds are a mixture of everything and to try and do a copy is nigh on impossible Overdriven guitars and echo's, the reverb room, amps, mics, I could go on and on."

The object is to "Try" to get close and on the journey of doing so, hopefully find out how things were done in those days!

Phil

[keithmantle]

Hi Phil the sound/tone is excellent its as close as we would all like to get it.

[Gary Allen]

Hi Phil,You ve only to compare the studio version to the crackerjack version to realise how good Abbey Rd was.If I were to approach this I would play Bruces part on the middle p/up as it sounds like Hank layered that with his sound too,the chorus sounds overdubbed also,E,C,F,E etc,I would use the TVS send/return for the echo level while mixing and then soak it in reverb, and Id brighten up the guitar sound too,I would then add reverb to all the other tracks. I could be miles off the beaten track but you know its not a case of 4 tracks carefully panned to give this sort of production...regards Gary

[Phil.c]

Thanks Kieth,

Gary,

Thanks for listening.

I have been working on this for months and as you know that means listening and listening!

The guitar is as close as I can get, I have tried all sorts of eq'ing and reverbs and effects., also many ways of recording it with amp settings and mic positions.

Bruces part, as far as I remember was played on the middle pickup but it's on it,s own, ie no overdubbing here except for very short ones, I think two if my memory serves me well.

The TVS3, to get the best from it, it has to be used the same way as you would with a Meazzi, ie guitar, echo unit and amp, using it via send/return won't give you the same sound.

The ECFE has overdubs and there's also overdubs on the main A/E right through the tune, using just bass for this does'nt work.

Reverb with similar settings to the reverb room at Abbey Road was used on guitar and backing.

This is a post of mine from another forum:-

As for your rhythm guitar comments, Bruce plays the picking parts but there are overdubs on the muted chorus's and also on the main theme ie A/B-A/B etc etc this is what makes the "Boing- Boing" I mentioned, because of the quality of the recording, or lack of it, it is very difficult to figure out exactly what is going on, to be honest, it's a wash of noise, but wonderful noise

It's not an easy case of choosing a reverb, eq'ing everything and letting it run, on the original, everything moves around so that, for example, the low guitar part on the beginning has not got exactly the same sound as the one at the end.
Hanks playing is also different with these two parts, the end part is much more forced, some of the notes cut out as if they are trying to be heard but don't have the volume to carry them through, even if I had dead sounding strings it would be difficult to copy this....it's all to do with the guys, the gear and......Abbey Road



Best regards,

Phil

[tolo]

Phil - you know my thoughts on this kind of replication...and I am no expert or advocate on trying to perfect a copy of something already wonderful... But to me - the guitar sounds great, you got the attitude right on, the perfomance is cracking and the quack is lovely.

The problem for me is the 'feel' of the track - it is just not natural. There is something awry between the bass and drums that is causing the track to falter - the snare in the verse seems 'off' a little behind the bass and it is too loud and maybe too much rim... Tonally there is something amiss on the kit. I would bury it a little and maybe change either the tuning or the attack. Also - and again, knowing how you forensically look at every nuance, did this on purpose - but have a little look at the timing overall between bass and kit and if you have some swing on it - reduce it or take it off...

Just my six penneth - but what do I know!!

Best always,

Tony

[roger bayliss]

I think this is very good and getting close to the original sound. Your playing is excellent on guitar. There is a little bit of top end brightness if anything maybe but sounds great to me and deserves a pat on the back. Well done.

Also the final sound is all the instruments together and the way they all work in the mix as you prove here by assessing the various parts and tackling them each as their own contribution to the sound.

[Phil.c]

Hi Tony, thanks for listening and commenting.

The drums and bass are in sync with the original, no swing etc, (I did however hear the snare slightly behind on a couple of beats) the difference is, there's so much wash, tape saturation, distortion etc and the drums are buried in the soup, VST drums as you know are clean, getting them to sound that way is no mean task.

Thanks Roger...appreciated!

Phil

[Uncle Fiesta]

Can anyone explain how there were overdubs when Abbey Road didn't get a four-track recorder until 1963?