Freedom of speech

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Freedom of speech

Postby Iain Purdon » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:06 am

The following is a short sequence of posts about alleged censorship on the site in relation to a new echo unit about to go on sale. I have moved it from another thread where it had begun to deviate from the subject.

It also got personal. Not naming anyone in particular but having a pop at various groups of people.

It may help explain why the moderators occasionally intervene.
Iain

stephen wrote:
sixstringsid wrote:I'm banned from charlies site so i'll have to watch here for updates.


Can I ask why (without it being censored as being 'off topic')?
Stephen


Hmm that comes over as a bit snide to me. The mods do not censor the site, life is too short. What we do is try to maintain a light touch, making sure that threads stay relevant and that personal sniping doesn't happen. (That plus libel and contempt of court stuff which doesn't apply here!)

If you want to go off the topic under discussion, we'd rather you started a separate thread. Doing that keeps all threads focussed and easy to follow; it also helps us all find the stuff that interests us.

There's room for plenty of self-expression here and it's encouraged. But please remember we are all different and not every member nor every passion will be your cup of tea. There's no need to say so. It can upset as many people as it amuses. Equally, what you write could irritate someone else - just as this may be doing - so please think twice before hitting 'Submit' :)

Taken in the round, there's a load of material on this site about just about every effects unit there is, including original designs by members. This thread is about one forthcoming product. That makes it newsworthy. It doesn't imply the site has a stance on it. It doesn't.

Many thanks! Iain
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Re: Charies new Echo Unit

Postby stephen » Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:41 pm

Ian, I'm sorry that you interpreted my comment as being a touch 'snide'. It wasn't so intended. I just ended the question with that censorship proviso, based on my recent experiences on here whenever anything I said was judged to be non-PC (Protective of Charlie).
By comparison, and for arguments sake, say Fender were bringing out a new & pricey Hank Marvin model. I could state that I didn't think it was worth the money/wouldn't give one house room/aren't counting off the days until it hits the shops/will not let not having one spoil my Christmas etc, etc . and can guarantee that it would hardly cause a ripple amongst the membership, because after all in a democracy, we are all entitled to our point of view, aren't we? However, when it comes to the long-awaited Hall & Collins echo, it now appears that the moderators of this site will brook nothing in a similar vein without it being removed and somewhat strangely classed as 'off topic'. I'm afraid that to me, 'off topic' in this regard seems to relate to anything judged as remotely neutral or horror-of-horrors, slightly negative. Hence the censorship proviso that you referred to.
That 'other' Shadows site just oozes a sycophancy that personally makes my skin crawl and every time I take a quick look around it (to see if anything's changed.....for the better), the threads & comments still mainly consist of members thanking each other ad nauseam for the slightest of things and every few posts declaring their undying allegiance to their benefactor, the Lord of the Echoes. It's always reminded me of that 60's American series, "The Waltons", in that at the end of each episode, all the many family members would say 'goodnight' to each other.......indefinitely! I much preferred this site as it was more 'edgy' & balanced opinion-wise. Sadly, I've come to question some of this of late......
I'm not so obtuse as to not acknowledge that just being a member of a Shadows forum is tantamount to accepting that you tread (however lightly) in serious anorak territory and I'm honestly not being either snide or insulting by saying that. It's a fact and I include myself in that. Personally, an interest in guitars primarily and The Shadows to a minor extent, just form one of my lesser, but no less enjoyable interests. However, for the sake of my own sanity I find some things very difficult to get my head around.............
A coterie of superannuated men (& a few women!) communally wishing their lives away lemming-like until the arrival of an echo pedal (for God's sake!) strikes me as absolutely ludicrous & bizarre. Folks, it's JUST an echo pedal, so let's please get real and view things in a more sane & relative perspective. It isn't like it's arrival (or more accurately not) is of similar import as a cure for ebola and nor was this pedal created by The Hand of God. If I so much as HINT at any aspects of this opinion of mine and tender the mildest of often, tongue-in-cheek rebukes, there's such a manic & outraged reaction from some quarters that it reminds me of the blind, unthinking support given by loyal North Koreans in response to any perceived slight against their leader Kim Jong. If there was an avatar of someone being stoned to death by a crazed mob, I'd adopt it as my own! Sorry, Ian. It's just the way things strike me and I'm not being either snide or sneering at anyone/anything in stating the above.
I do hope that this message is allowed to stand and also that it's gone at least some way to explain my standpoint. I have taken what you've said 'on board' and can assure you that I have thought carefully before now pressing Submit'.
Stephen.
Last edited by stephen on Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Charlie's new Echo Unit

Postby Iain Purdon » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:23 pm

Stephen - I will let this stand so that others can read what you've said. However, it seems I wasn't clear.

This site and its moderator team has no policy on this or any other echo unit. I am one of the site moderators and, if it did, I would know about it.

To speak of some fellow members as superannuated folk wishing their lives away in pursuit of something relatively unimportant is not going to endear you to them. Their anorak may not be the same as yours but that doesn't invalidate it. That's what I was trying to say. Not everybody wants fun poked at them. Live and let live, if you like.

Likewise, to refer to another member of the community as the Lord of the Echoes, which, unless it is your genuine opinion, comes over as sarcastic, is not going to endear you to him. Nor is charging certain members of his site with sycophancy going to endear you to them.

Discuss the merits of gear all you want but I'm just asking you to leave people out of it.

Can we please agree on that?

Thanks - Iain
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Re: Charlie's new Echo Unit

Postby stephen » Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:41 pm

Certainly, Iain. We can agree on that. I'm just expressing my personal 'take' on this subject in a straightforward way and the views are those of a relative Shadows 'outsider' looking in, so-to-speak and that's how certain things strike me.
Stephen.
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Re: Charlie's new Echo Unit

Postby stephen » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:05 pm

Iain,
Will you grant me a final comment on this subject?
When you state that you'll eventually move this to a different thread because "it is really about freedom of speech", I do beg to differ somewhat. The only time that my comments have EVER been removed are the ones that relate directly to the Halls/EFTP or their new echo pedal.
This being the case, my latest contribution refers directly to the gubbins surrounding 'Charlie's New Echo Pedal', so it being allowed to remain, whilst albeit probably not flavour -of- the- month with his acolytes, is none the less directly attributable & saliently pertinent to the topic and therefore doesn't merit removal to a new thread in order for it to have a lower and less controversial profile. I do hope you appreciate my point in this regard.
Stephen.
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Re: Charlie's new Echo Unit

Postby kipper » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:41 pm

from what i can make of these comments and others made by Stephen he clearly has personal issues with charlie hall and the way he runs his site. he is entitled to his opinion
but it has nothing to do with this site and nothing to do with this thread. in my unbiased opinion it should be removed completely and not moved any where except in to the bin. and i do object to what he says about people who think charlie hall is a top man in his work. just my view. peter
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Re: Charlie's new Echo Unit

Postby AC15H1TV » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:36 am

kipper wrote:from what i can make of these comments and others made by Stephen he clearly has personal issues with charlie hall and the way he runs his site. he is entitled to his opinion
but it has nothing to do with this site and nothing to do with this thread. in my unbiased opinion it should be removed completely and not moved any where except in to the bin. and i do object to what he says about people who think charlie hall is a top man in his work. just my view. peter


Thank goodness someone else is showing a bit of common sense regarding this thread and comments.

James
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Re: Charlie's new Echo Unit

Postby stephen » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:30 pm

AC15H1TV wrote:
kipper wrote:from what i can make of these comments and others made by Stephen he clearly has personal issues with charlie hall and the way he runs his site. he is entitled to his opinion
but it has nothing to do with this site and nothing to do with this thread. in my unbiased opinion it should be removed completely and not moved any where except in to the bin. and i do object to what he says about people who think charlie hall is a top man in his work. just my view. peter


Thank goodness someone else is showing a bit of common sense regarding this thread and comments.

James


You can sweep what I've had to say under the carpet (or in this case under a less noticeable heading); consign the content to the bin as Kipper eloquently suggests; cover your eyes up; bury your heads ostrich-like in the sand........whatever method of denial floats your boat, but that doesn't invalidate the points I've made.
Last night I received several Personal Messages from quite prominent & long-standing members of this forum who not only endorsed my comments, congratulated me for expressing them but also provided their own examples of the 'censorship' that they had experienced and also stated that whilst some of us aren't allowed to air certain views & personally criticise others, some can do so to an extreme/insulting degree, with absolute impunity! Several names were mentioned..................
No, sadly this area is not a level playing field.
Stephen.
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Re: Freedom of speech

Postby Iain Purdon » Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:59 pm

The heading Freedom of Speech is exactly what this thread is about and clearly noticeable since it has been found already.

All I can ask these unidentified people is to make themselves known to the moderators - either one, two or all three of us, as they wish - and let us know what they think needs to be fixed.

Nobody should be insulting anybody here. If they are, they should stop it now. If we see it happening, we will intervene. If you see it happen, please PM us.

Iain
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Re: Charlie's new Echo Unit

Postby kipper » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:05 pm

stephen wrote:
AC15H1TV wrote:
kipper wrote:from what i can make of these comments and others made by Stephen he clearly has personal issues with charlie hall and the way he runs his site. he is entitled to his opinion
but it has nothing to do with this site and nothing to do with this thread. in my unbiased opinion it should be removed completely and not moved any where except in to the bin. and i do object to what he says about people who think charlie hall is a top man in his work. just my view. peter


Thank goodness someone else is showing a bit of common sense regarding this thread and comments.

James


You can sweep what I've had to say under the carpet (or in this case under a less noticeable heading); consign the content to the bin as Kipper eloquently suggests; cover your eyes up; bury your heads ostrich-like in the sand........whatever method of denial floats your boat, but that doesn't invalidate the points I've made.
Last night I received several Personal Messages from quite prominent & long-standing members of this forum who not only endorsed my comments, congratulated me for expressing them but also provided their own examples of the 'censorship' that they had experienced and also stated that whilst some of us aren't allowed to air certain views & personally criticise others, some can do so to an extreme/insulting degree, with absolute impunity! Several names were mentioned..................
No, sadly this area is not a level playing field.
Stephen.


stephen as you have quoted part of what i was saying and i will say it again your comments had nothing to do with the thread and nothing to do with this site. that is what i was commenting on nothing else.
now we all have chance in this thread that ian has put this into to air our views name names ect, because this thread is now about freedom of speech. this is the right time and place if anyone wants to do that, so ian has done a very good thing here. i always try to comment with out any personal agenda and hope thats what i have done here
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