Another Vibra Artist.

[Jagger]

Hi Ray,

The selector was indeed the big black lump stuck on the faceplate above the neck pick up and it used to have an ivorene knob on it as I remember.The cover was stuck on the faceplate with some sort of plastic glue (I think they used a solvent to melt it on originally) probably Airfix plastic cement.

It was three position but could be bridged between the three main positions.Made weird noises as I remember but remember my memory is getting on a bit.Fifteen plus years since I touched any sort of guitar and that would have been my old hot rod Fender.Or the Bender Tattycaster that lives next door to the other broken down guitar in the closet.Like I said,I break things.

I'd love to restore it as so many of these have been stripped for their pick ups over the years.Just have to see if the scratchplate shows it's face when I go up in the loft (shudder) to sort through the junk up there.I still think the multicore was a birds nest.

Gretsch arrives this morning.

[David Martin]

I think my pics show the multicore cable and its various connections, and agree... bit of a bird's nest...

[mgeek]

I'd love to restore it as so many of these have been stripped for their pick ups over the years.Just have to see if the scratchplate shows it's face when I go up in the loft (shudder) to sort through the junk up there.I still think the multicore was a birds nest.

Great looking project- some serious work involved there though!!

RE: Burn's being stripped for their pickups...I've got to disagree...I've seen this posted all over the place, including Per's book, but if it were true, surely we'd see more naked Burnses out there? I don't see them turn up any more or less than any other 40-50 year old guitars...

It's not like a set of old Tri-Sonics ever really sell for significantly more than a reissue set either- I was watching a set before Christmas that went for 90 quid or so- so bear that in mind if you get to completing your project!

RE: the age...

surely the really early ones had beech or sycamore fretboards? Maybe the warpedness of the neck makes it feel like it's got an offset?

[RayL]

RE: the age...
surely the really early ones had beech or sycamore fretboards? Maybe the warpedness of the neck makes it feel like it's got an offset?

The Artist model had a maple fingerboard. The Artist shown in my avatar is actually one of the earliest that was made after Jim Burns parted from Henry Weill (confirmed by a letter from Phil Sweet ). I started modifying it in the mid-60s (long before there was any thought of 'untouched' guitars being more valuable) but you can see that the fingerboard is maple. Similarly, the Artist shown on p.17 of Pearls has a maple fingerboard. The later Vibra Artiste had a rosewood fingerboard.

Regarding the offset, the depth below the 1st string is about 3/8". The depth below the 5th string is about 3/4". I doubt that such a profile could be mistaken for a warped neck. Although each neck was individually hand carved, they were all measured for correctness by Jim's 'palm guage' so there won't be that much difference between one offset and another.

Ray

[Jagger]

Oh the neck on mine is well twisted as shown in the pics but definitely has the assymetric neck.Just measured at around 0.350 of an inch @ 1st and 0.470 @ 5th. And a rosewood fingerboard.

Point taken about the pick-ups but I suspect most were taken off of unplayable guitars and also that the wood was used as kindling.It's not like a Burns with a twisted neck was particularly collectable in the sixties or seventies as far as I'm aware.I found mine leaning against the wall of a barn back in the early seventies.It was already near unplayable and almost scrap.Only the optimism of youth (and lack of a Fender) made it last a few years.If I hadn't bought it I think it would have ended up on a fire.The good ones that survive now would have been kept in cases by musicians since manufacture I reckon.

I did show the body to a "professional" (worked in a shop) guitar repairer many years ago and he declared the work to straighten the twist beyond the monetary value of the guitar by a factor of ten.That may have changed now.And I'm in no rush so a lengthy spell in a workshop being unwarped is acceptable.Still need a new truss rod for it though.And the electrics (sob).

[mgeek]

The Artist model had a maple fingerboard. The Artist shown in my avatar is actually one of the earliest ...

Just going by personal experience though, and a titbit from Pers book- that the earliest Vibra Artistes had sycamore fretboards- that's what made me double check it.

I know well what the offset neck feels like, being the EX owner of a Burns-Weill martian cricket bat bass. Terribly made instrument, and sits well with the rumour that Jim Burns was effectively 'let go' from the partnership by Henry Weill, over the shocking lack of quality control in his work! You can read similar moans about his craftsmanship on the Supersound website...seems that he only really got his act together once he started working with proper woodworkers, and could take on more of a design/back seat role.

To be honest Graham- the amount of work a 'pro' guitar repairer would charge you to sort that out is still going to be way more than it's worth- bear in mind you're looking at £150+ for a straight refret, £200 for a refinish, an ungodly amount of money to sort out the truss rod and twist, and I think you can start to imagine how much you'd have to put into it...and still ultimately have a non original guitar that's gonna be worth £3-400 tops.

Unless you're able to take on the work yourself, or your friend is willing to do you a pretty massive favour, I think it would be worth selling this project on to someone who's up for a labour of love, and buying the next usable example that comes along

[JimN]

RE: Burn's being stripped for their pickups...I've got to disagree...I've seen this posted all over the place, including Per's book, but if it were true, surely we'd see more naked Burnses out there? I don't see them turn up any more or less than any other 40-50 year old guitars...

I've seen several Burns and/or Baldwin guitars with completely unsuitable replacement pickups over the years. Back in the later seventies and early eighties, I encountered several for sale which had Dimarzio and similar humbuckers fitted, and some of these were models which would originally have had Tri-Sonics fitted (eg, the Short-Scale Jazz and the Sonic). Whether the full story behind Brian May's self-built guitar was known then (with a consequent demand for Tri-Sonics), I couldn't say. I suspect that some were just stored away and later dragged out and sold when the real call for them arose in the 1980s and that the DiMarzios, Mighty Mites, etc, were fitted as a genuine attempt at "improvement".

Apart from that, there are a lot of Burns models which you just hardly ever did see even when they were available new (probably meaning that the numbers were always limited). And my further guess is that some of the less in-demand models (which at one time meant everything except the Marvin, Shadows Bass and Double Six) were bought up cheaply in the 80s and early 90s, stripped of their Tri-Sonics and just scrapped...

JN

[mgeek]

the neck had an 'offset contour' (deepest under the 5th fret)

Oh the neck on mine is well twisted as shown in the pics but definitely has the assymetric neck.Just measured at around 0.350 of an inch @ 1st and 0.470 @ 5th. And a rosewood fingerboard.

Just to clarify- the deepest point on the offset necks is under the fifth STRING not fret...in case that's causing any confusion. The neck would likely get a little deeper as it gets closer to the body, as on a lot of guitars, but that's a separate matter.

My incredulity stems purely from the fact I've never seen a rosewood boarded vibra artiste with a trem and offset before- call me doubting Thompson!

[mgeek]

Apart from that, there are a lot of Burns models which you just hardly ever did see even when they were available new (probably meaning that the numbers were always limited). And my further guess is that some of the less in-demand models (which at one time meant everything except the Marvin, Shadows Bass and Double Six) were bought up cheaply in the 80s and early 90s, stripped of their Tri-Sonics and just scrapped...

JN

Whoops- don't want to dominate this thread...but I'm gonna reply

Without wanting to get overly scientific- I've seen plenty of speculation but no real evidence.

I think Ebay is a pretty good guage of the scarcity or otherwise of things, and there is pretty much always a 'Sonic' available. Less so Vibra Artistes, but I think a lot of that is due to them being held onto by proud owners. I'd probably go as far as to say that the Burns Sonic is second only to the Watkins Rapier, and perhaps the Vox Duotone as the most commonly available English electric guitar

As an example- I'm into Fenton Weills, and I'd say for every one of them that turns up- of ANY model, I'll have seen at least 5 or 6 'Sonics' alone. They simply aren't scarce guitars.

I think it's a nice 'titbit' of trivia for us Burns fans to be able to wheel out, but I'm afraid I think it's total B.S !

*edit* Apologies for going on about it so much...I've been dipping into Pearls and Crazy diamonds a fair bit recently, and every time I see that claim it rankles!

[cockroach]

My old Burns Vibra Artiste(?) had a dark wood fingerboard, a vibrato tailpiece (but with no arm) and three position blade(Fender type) pickup switch- the white plastic tip had long gone when I bought it and the switch was rusty - changing pickups was dangerous, you could not only get a bad cut but also tentanus!

After the guitar neck warped and the guitar was unplayable, I broke it up for parts, and I sold the three Tri sonics some years ago to a chap in Newcastle (UK not Australia) I still have a few bits left- some machine heads, tailpiece, knobs etc ...somewhere...