Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

For any discussion specifically about Burns guitars

Moderators: David Martin, dave robinson, Iain Purdon, George Geddes

Re: Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

Postby George Geddes » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:13 pm

Jim: are you planning a cake for the Marvin birthday?

Paul: Yup, you are right, there is a comma. Given the bitsa nature of the guitar (which I am sure you remember well...) it's not surprising. I suppose I need to source a genuine Marvin plate...

The Bass is as you describe. I'm fairly certain the plate was absent when I bought the bass from Route 66, along with a machine head cover. I just picked a neckplate from ebay! Great bass, though. Was my only 4-stringer for many years until I acquired a s/h Squier P Bass.

George
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Re: Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

Postby burnsbonkers » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:13 am

Vibra artiste, 1962.
419/L.
Regards.
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Re: Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

Postby dusty fretz » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:42 pm

Hi Patrick,
Many thanks for your contribution. However, as I mentioned in my original request, I'm attempting to compile a database of those Burns and Baldwin guitars and basses that display visible serial numbers, produced between 1961 and 1970. This means Burns' early glued-neck efforts can't be included, as any appropriate numbers they may carry are always hidden from view under the scratchplate and therefore don't offer a convenient or consistent form of reference.

While I realise that Burns is only a niche subject on what is already a specialised (i.e. minority) interest site, I must admit to being somewhat disappointed with the response via this message board, which has so far yielded only about half-a-dozen instruments. This would indicate that most of those Shadows' fans who favour/play Burns models tend to go for the modern versions rather than oldie originals. That said, any additional relevant examples from the past will be gratefully received.
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Re: Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

Postby RayL » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:42 am

dusty fretz wrote:This would indicate that most of those Shadows' fans who favour/play Burns models tend to go for the modern versions rather than oldie originals.


This site has a high percentage of players, as distinct from 'collectors'. To play Shadows music from the 'Burns era' a white Marvin is needed, in the same way as a Fiesta Red Strat is de rigeur for the Apache era. Since original 1960s Marvins are rare and expensive, Barry Gibson's modern-day versions are all that are available. When the aim is an all-white lineup to play Flingel Bunt, then a Vista Sonic or a TR2 simply will not do.

The Burns collectors (those who hoard multiple copies of the same model) are the ones to help you, and I'm sure you've trawled them already.
Ray
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Re: Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

Postby bor64 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:30 pm

Hi Paul,

Did you fetch Funs serial numbers already?
Here are mine

Burns Double Six Greenburst
May 1964 serial 5306

Burns Marvin White
March 1965 serial 10349

As many here on the site I own several modern Burns guitars, but you want only the oldies ;)
Will the list be published, because it would be nice to know how many are still around.
No names or locations of course , but something like Werners list would be nice.....

Cheers Rob
Last edited by bor64 on Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
"afterwards everyone is clairvoyant"
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Re: Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

Postby dusty fretz » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:59 pm

Hi Rob,
Many thanks for your couple of contributions, although actually I already had your Double Six listed. What did you mean by "Did you fetch Funs serial numbers already?" Is this a source I should know about?

At present the list is far from finished, as I've amassed only about 800 numbers out of a possible 22,000 or so! But when it is appreciably nearer completion then I would be more than willing to share my findings with anyone who might be interested, although actual publishing isn't really financially feasible. In terms of content, the format is indeed very much like Jim Werner's Fender list, with the serial number accompanied by relevant model information, but no personal or private details of course.
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Re: Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

Postby dusty fretz » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:29 am

Hi Ray,
I realise the Marvin is obviously considered the mandatory Burns model for Shadows' music, but I thought maybe a few of those players on here might've indulged in a broader appreciation of the Burns or Baldwin brands and had accordingly acquired some other, more affordable originals at one time or another.

As you say, the major Burns collectors should constitute the obvious targets in my search for serial numbers, but while there was certainly quite a number of these in-depth enthusiasts a few years ago, it appears that for varied reasons most have since downsized drastically, including yours truly. This means my only hope now rests with the fact that they usefully retained appropriate records of their dear departed instruments, or that the new caretakers of these oldies will eventually learn of my quest and contact me.
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Re: Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

Postby bor64 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:51 am

Hi Paul,

By fetching the serial numbers from Funs, I mean Alfons from Limburg The Netherlands, well known by you I reckon...maybe he has acquired more guitars beside the ones on his website.
I'm intrigued about the fact you already know my Double Six serial number, please enlighten me.
It would be nice to know how many original Marvin's still exist of the 315 allegedly made.

Cheers Rob
"afterwards everyone is clairvoyant"
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Re: Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

Postby dusty fretz » Wed Apr 01, 2015 4:06 pm

Hi Rob,
I reckoned you might mean Alfons LaHaye and of course I do know him. I'd already looked at the guitars and serial number list on his website and accordingly added the appropriate information, which included details of your Double Six by the way, so did you buy it from him? I too thought he had owned other Burns instruments in addition to those shown, so naturally I contacted him to request further assistance. However, he wasn't happy that I'd borrowed data from his site without first asking permission, as apparently this condition is stated on there somewhere, although I still can't find it! He also said he'd never possessed any instruments other than those displayed, although I seem to recall seeing more on there in the past and also have photos he sent me some years ago of additional examples. Anyway, we eventually agreed I could list the numbers, as obviously these aren't anyone's 'private property', but he preferred I didn't use the accompanying model specs. He mentioned that he'd be updating his serial number records some time soon and would then give me more information, which seems a little contradictory. So all in all it's a somewhat confusing situation, but I do hope he'll feel more like helping in the future.

I'm always intrigued to know where these apparently 'accurate' stated production figures originate for the Marvin and other Burns oldies. I have a huge amount of relevant research material from the time, including spraying records etc., but I don't have info on exact quantities made, nor over the past 40 years have I ever spoken to any ex-Burns/Baldwin employee who claimed to know such well defined details. I can only conclude these so-called statistics must be based on uninformed opinion/wishful thinking that has subsequently become regarded as hard fact via repeated re-telling on the internet, which unfortunately is something that so often occurs with the wonderful(?) world wide web.
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Re: Burns & Baldwin Serial Numbers

Postby bor64 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:16 pm

Hi Paul,

Yes indeed I bought that DS from Alfons, that was in 89..... so long before the net was a common thing....so why he has the info of my guitar on his site currently(without asking me ;) ) is beyond me.
So that "famous" number 315 is an urban legend?
Paul if you gathered so much more info regarding Burns and Baldwin wouldn't it be time for a real updated Burns book?
I've still 2 samples of the Burns book, one in use and very loose fitted and one in pristine condition...
The Pearl Burns book is nice, but nothing more than that...

Cheers Rob
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