Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

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Re: Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

Postby HAIRY » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:34 pm

To broaden this thread a little, the 1961 4 x pickup Burns Black Bison is a most extra ordinary guitar and proof of Jim Burn's ambition and imagination, particularly when viewed in context. It was launched on the cusp of postwar gloom and the emerging swinging 60s, in a country that did not have a strong guitar making tradition. The features and benefits totally eclipsed the competition both at home and abroad. They were handmade and included:
- a solid mahogany neck and body
- contoured body
- a gearbox truss rod adjustment
- a set neck
- bound ebony fingerboard
- a 24 3/8 scale
- 22 frets
- gold or chrome plated hardware
- 4 x single coil Ultra-Sonic pickups each with 6 windings (ie 24 windings in total)
- 8 sounds including 'Split Sound' (compared to a Strat's 3)
- a floating cradle bridge & vibrato that stays in tune
- a spectacular looking beast.

No doubt there were many reasons for the 1961 Black Bisons' lack of commercial success (cost, complex/over engineered, lack of development, relaxation of US import restrictions and the lack of association with a big name etc). However, if Jim had retained the original character and vision in subsequent Bison developments, and had been able to convince Hank to put his name to it, the Burns story may have been very different. Santana might be playing a Burns (and not a PRS) and it follows, many members of this site would be playing Burns Black Bison Marvins!!!!
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Re: Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

Postby cockroach » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:17 pm

I don't believe I've ever actually heard what the 4 pickup model actually sounds like.

Could anyone who has one possibly post a sound file or video with audio please?

It would be fascinating to hear each of the eight different pickup settings.
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Re: Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

Postby burnsbonkers » Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:42 am

I also agree with cockroach.
Id love to hear one of them beauties in action!.
And also , I'm very glad to know its been fixed and restored! ....A fantastic job!.
It shows that you can fix anything given the skill , time ....(and money!).
Pat
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Re: Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

Postby HAIRY » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:48 pm

I will look into the possibility of posting a sound file of The Beast.

To date the only recording I have found of a 4 pickup Bison are:

1. Eric O Henrit: www.myspace.com/ericohenrit/videos#!/er ... 1-44240437 .....see some 'Shads' tracks under 'tribute to Jim Burns'
2. Faron's Flamingos at The Cavern featuring Nick Crouch (who subsequently joined The Mojos): http://www.merseybeatnostalgia.co.uk/ht ... video.html
3. Sonny Stewart and The Dynamos (featuring Peter Budd): www.peterbuddguitar.com/peterbuddguitar ... ctions.asp

It is suggested that John Mayall played a highly modified 4 pickup Bison on his 1967 disc The Diary Of A Band, as featured on the cover.

If anyone knows of others it would be interesting to hear what they are.
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Re: Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

Postby BrianD » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:39 pm

HAIRY wrote:I will look into the possibility of posting a sound file of The Beast.

To date the only recording I have found of a 4 pickup Bison are:

1. Eric O Henrit: http://www.myspace.com/ericohenrit/vide ... 1-44240437 .....see some 'Shads' tracks under 'tribute to Jim Burns'
2. Faron's Flamingos at The Cavern featuring Nick Crouch (who subsequently joined The Mojos): http://www.merseybeatnostalgia.co.uk/ht ... video.html
3. Sonny Stewart and The Dynamos (featuring Peter Budd): http://www.peterbuddguitar.com/peterbud ... ctions.asp

It is suggested that John Mayall played a highly modified 4 pickup Bison on his 1967 disc The Diary Of A Band, as featured on the cover.

If anyone knows of others it would be interesting to hear what they are.


I believe the John Mayall guitar was a highly hacked around example of a three pick-up mid-60's model.

I had the pleasure of playing three different examples of the 4 pick-up model. One was owned by a guy I knew in Worthing back in the late '70s. I remember the pick-ups were very weak compared to contemporary single coil pick-up guitras such as the Strat or Marvin of the day. Of course, by that time we were well into over-driven valve amps, humbuckers and so on so the 4pu Bison sounded totally out of place - just an interesting museum piece!!! Much more recently - well, about twelve years ago, I played Barry Gibson's example whne I visited his place to collect my Legend. I must confess it didn't change my opinion - an interesting guitar but not practical for modern live work. For the life of me I cannot remember where I played the third example, just know I did!

Brian
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Re: Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

Postby cockroach » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:44 pm

Brian,

I'm sure I read somewhere that the 4 pickup Bison had low impedance pickups?

Unless it had an in-built active battery powered pre-amp (like say, a later Burns TR2), or adjustable output impedance with an inbuilt transformer (like the Gibson Les Paul models such as the Personal, Professional and Recording models) then its pickup output through a normal guitar amp would be far lower than normal high impedance electric guitar pickups?

Does this make any sense to electronics tech minded folk?
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Re: Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

Postby HAIRY » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:49 pm

As reported earlier in this topic only 49 guitars were made. Such a small number of this innovative & complex instrument makes it little more than a prototypes, and without the benefit of evolution and development that comes with longer production. However, when chatting to the Burns book author Paul Day, he tells me that 'in typical Burns fashion and by accident or intent there are significant variations apparent between different examples of this model'. This includes the expected variations throughout a batch of handmade guitars, as well as more significant variations in wiring and pickup selection options etc. Whether these were by way of consumer choice, evolution or accident is not clear.

When I acquired my guitar prior to the renovation Paul warned me to expect a selection of in-and-out-of-phase sounds from the low impedance pickups (it is thought the variations in phasing was developed to get a bit of life out the available amps of the day that were all too often voiced for the demands of jazz & dance band market). It is interesting to note this is also confirmed by BrianD's recollection of the three guitars he played. However, the pickup signals I was getting were not out-of-phase. And provided the pickups were close to the strings, the sound was only marginally weaker than that of my Strat.

So why was this particular guitar different? I started looking for a cause and soon found the probable source. The polarity of the neck pickup had been reversed, which I assume is putting the pickup combinations back in-phase.

Whether this was by way of consumer choice, evolution, accident or later modification, I will probably never know.

The current pickup options from the two rotary switches are:

1 A Neck+2+3c+4c
2 A Neck+2c+4c
3 A 2
4 A Neck+2+4c
1 B 4c
2 B Neck+4
3 B Neck+2
4 B 2bottom+4topc (Split Sound: created by a mix of the top three strings of the 4th pickup and the bottom three strings of the 2nd pickup)

I attach a picture that clearly shows a row of transformers that Cockroach observed would be required for the low impedance pickups.

The 1961 Bison may have its idiosyncrasies, but to call it an interesting museum piece is a little misleading. I suspect that having subjected mine to a sympathetic renovation, it is probably as good as they get and maybe a better guitar than most of the others. Certainly it is very playable and it stands up well against the likes of a Strat. However, I have considered obtaining expert help to 'change a few wires' to obtain more conventional pickup options, but to date I have taken the easy path and retained Jim's original options.
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Re: Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

Postby BrianD » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:46 pm

Interesting comments on what was cedrtainly an innovative design. As I said earlier I played three different 4 pick up examples but even way back then they were starting to go for rarified prices. I bought one of the next generation 3pu models which I found extremely comfortable to play but impractical as far as the electrics were concerned. This was back around '74 / '75. I took the whole scratchplate assembly off and stored it away so I could restore it to original when I came to sell it and then had a new plate made up with my own selection of single coil and humbucker picker ups and multiple selector switches. In that guise it was my main working guitar for several years and I used it in preference to the '61 Strat and goldtop Les Paul Deluxe (with the small Epi pick-ups) I also had at that time. I thought the neck on that particular example was fantastic. Where oh where is it now??? :roll:

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Re: Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

Postby BrianD » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:58 pm

And here, if I can get this to work, is a picture of me playing said 3pu modified Bison in1975. Happy days!
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Re: Burns 4 pickup Bison.....Whaaaat!?

Postby cockroach » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:00 am

Very interesting chaps!

I look forward to hearing a sound sample of the tones from the eight pickup settings!

As was said, it was a very original unusual guitar, then and now, so why should it not have different sounds of its own, rather than sounding like just another Fender Strat clone soundwise...?

Blimey, what a wiring setup- looks fiendishly complex compared to a standard Strat or Tele setup!
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