Burns Sonic models ,early 60's

[burnsbonkers]

Hi,
I took apart an early tri-sonic (seperate magnet type) when I was restoring my first early-ish v.artiste....
You have the chrome cover , with the holes in , and the bottom plate with the tabs on it with holes that allow the height adjustment screws to pass through, all the same as the later type. But that's where the similarity ends (unless you have the much smaller sized tri sonic that were fitted to the early artistes / v.artistes, as they are smaller,but made the same way)
The 6 seperate magnets are riveted to the bottom plate, and then the wire coil is tightly packed around the outside of the magnets, wrapped in what appears to be masking tape.
Although, the later pickups that were fitted to the Sonics (bar magnet type) were regarded as a cheaper version to manufacture, I think they are the definitive sound of the tri sonic. Also they are the same type that Brian May stuck in the red special.

[ErikMAMS]

Apart from the three on my Artist (which I'm reluctant to dismantle), I think I've got a spare multi-magnet lurking somewhere. I'll have a look.

Thanks Ray - I would be very interested in that.

Erik

[cockroach]

The Burns Trisonics with the six separate magnets were VERY powerful, and loud! They put out quite a high voltage.

After my Vibra Artiste became unusable, I salvaged the pickups, and used two on a hand made guitar built by our drummer- an unusual sound, not much like any other single coil pickup I'd heard.

I never knew that the Sonic version was a simpler bar magnet type, with a fake Trisonic cover!

[burnsbonkers]

Ray,
What where the control knobs Like on your artiste when you bought it in 63?, were they solid black conical knobs the same shape as the ones on my 62 vibra , but black?.
I'm using that wonderful black and white pic of your 59 artiste as inspiration for my artiste rebuild as mentioned on my other thread.
I purchased a slightly rusty but perfectly working ARTISTE (not vibra!) bridge from a guy on the net.
It has the original holes in the baseplate which the strings pass through, so theres no doubt about its originality. (The holes are definitely original)
I'll be posting a new thread soon documenting the rebuild . I'm sure some of you guys will be interested in its progress!.
Anyway, back to the Sonics....

[RayL]

Ah, Patrick, you're getting me into "If I knew then what I know now" territory!

If I knew then that I should leave my Burns Artist severely alone (preferably wrap it up, put it in store and never play it) I would be able to answer your question about knobs easily. However, there was no thought at that time about the reverance that these guitars would be given 50 years later.

As it was, that guitar quickly became a 'test bed' as I tried out different pickup switching and effects like reverse phase. I'm not even sure that the black knobs that you see in the picture were the originals anyway

Just for you I rushed out to the workshop shed in a rainstorm to look through the box of 'assorted knobs' . This is a sort of 'graveyard' that has knobs dating back to my earliest experiments but I can't be sure now which were originally fitted the the Artist.

Here's a couple of possibles

knobs.jpg (11.21 KiB) Viewed 12166 times

You can see why they ended up in the graveyard - the plastic cracked. The black one may well be one of the ones that you see in the picture, but since the main scratchplate was creamy-white it is possible that the cream knob was one of the originals ( I can find a bag of 5 of these, which hints that they might be what is left of the set of six). Since mine was one of the very early production ones, Jim may have simply used what he could get at some local 'radio spares' shop.

Ray

[Graylion]

To the best of my knowledge, and memory of that period, the Artistes always had cream/white knobs. There were two types - fluted sides similar to the black one in the photo, and plain smooth sides with a taper towards the top. Mine is an all-original late 1960 early 1961 Vibra Artiste (smooth-sided tapered knobs)with a pretty solid provenance - the chap who sold it to me (secondhand) in 1962 is still alive and playing string bass in a jazz band! (He's about 82 I think ). Its original first owner passed away in the 1990s but his brother is still going and performing in a band.

My earliest dated catalogue is from Bell Music, November 1961 and both the Sonic and Artiste had white knobs. All the secondhand Burns I saw from 1961 (i.e. 1961 or older) had white knobs. The cream knob in the photo is from an amplifier or possibly record player. My 1962 Bird amp has the same type. They were rarely fitted to guitars of that period ex-works - except for the really cheap ones like Watkins and some unbranded models from Bell Music. They usually came with gold centres, although I believe silver was also available. Some had an "arrow" cut out to the centre as an indicator (like my Bird amp). Like most things, you'll find them on eBay from time-to-time.

I think it's also fair to say that VERY few 'amateur' guitarists in the 1960s customised their axes - especially if they bought them from new. Knobs were not replaced unless they were broken. Paint was not stripped unless it was seriously damaged. It is likely that any customising was done to guitars that were more than 10 years old and showing signs of heavy wear. It can mean that those people who claim that an old guitar is in "original condition" (e.g. a Burns with bare mahogany finish) are not likely to be the original owners so it's pure supposition on their part (or possibly outright lies!)
Cheers, Lionel

[burnsbonkers]

Fantastic stuff Ray! .
The creamy knob is very similar to the ones that were fitted to watkins rapiers, and I actually considered some just like that in black, that project guitar parts are selling.
Hmm. I know its a small thing really, but these little details matter ( to me!)
The guitar won't ever be as accurate as a 59 artiste, bit im going to get it close. Alfons Lahaye in the Netherlands has had a headstock badge made for it, but its in white instead with black lettering , it looks great.
I'm afraid I'm going to be picking your brains now and then as the project goes on, for valuable info Ray,.. hope you don't mind!
Pat

[burnsbonkers]

Thanks for the input Lionel.
I'm aware of two types of knob that you mentioned, but you can't really consider Rays particular 59 model as a standard model like the one you own, and the other 62 that I artiste have.
Rays is a very early model, and apart from the cream scratchplate, and bigsby, on the pic it does appear to have the cream watkins style knobs on it.
The artiste that I'm rennovating also has an original white scratchplate... Which is very unusual.
......This thread is getting very interesting!
Pat

[RayL]

After another look through the 'graveyard' I came across another broken black knob as shown in the right of the photo so it seems quite likely that my Artist had black knobs as per the photo, which would fit in with the reversed white and black of the large and small scratchplates.

Maybe there is space in this growing interest in the early Burns models to start defining them by their place of origin - 'Buckhurst Hill' guitars, 'Roding Valley' guitars and 'Romford' guitars!

I think it's also fair to say that VERY few 'amateur' guitarists in the 1960s customised their axes - especially if they bought them from new.
Cheers, Lionel

I was obviously one of those few, though it does allow me to claim my little 'first' - the first published magazine article (Radio Constructor, November 1966) on modifying the electronics of an electric guitar.

Ray

[Graylion]

Hi Ray,
I've always assumed that the Artiste on your avatar was a much modified one - not an "original" produced by Burns. The trem, the all-black colour and none of the controls are like any I've seen (and used to see in the early 1960s).