An important mixing question

[abel]

Hi all,

I hope you are all doing OK and safe.

I would like some help if possible on how to best balance and mix my only 2 tracks recordings.
Usually, I record a live stereo track the following way:

- Guitar -------> Echo ---------> Amp ----------> out to 1 stereo channel in the mixer
- Backing track played through the P.A. -----------> out to 1 stereo channel in the mixer
- Mixer Stereo Main out to 1/8" mic input in my Zoom Q4N camcorder.

The problem with the resulting stereo file is that as soon as the guitar plays, the level of the Backing track goes considerably down.
I searched and read that the best way to have control over that is to Pan each channel opposite way.
So, in the mixer, I panned the guitar completely to the Left, and the Backing track completely to the Right.
Now I have my video file and 1 stereo file with the 2 tracks (BT and Guitar) panned opposite ways. I can save each one as a Mono track.

Where do I go from here and how do I get the best balance and mix between the 2?.
The Backing track originally sounds great in stereo. Now that it's mono, I wonder how I can get that stereo ambiance back.?

I would appreciate your expert input, thank you very much,
Abel

[SJB]

Hi Abel.
The camcorder has an automatic record level control.
The peaky nature of the guitar signal is causing the cut back in record level.

I take it the mix sounds OK at the mixer.

Same problem with RF headphones.

Could lower the output from the mixer until the BT is OK.
You could lower the guitar level or cut the high frequency. See if that works.

If the camcorder has a facility to deselect auto level deselect it.

Stu

[abel]

Hi Stuart,

Thank you much for your input.
Indeed, on the mixer, the sound is balanced.

I just turned the Auto Gain Off. It was on "Concert"
I also just turned on the Audio output as WAV 96 KHZ/24 BIT.

Let's hope this will help, then we'll go from there.

Blessings,
Abel

[JimN]

Hi, Abel.

Is there a reason why you are setting the audio sampling rate as high as 96 KHz and 24 bit? CD-quality (wav) is just 44.1 KHz, at 16 bit...

[Garystrat]

Hi Abel,

If I understand you correctly the two inputs are going to the same channel 1 on the stereo mixer, one to the left track the other to the right. If so this is the problem, you need to use two channels on the mixer, i.e Guitar chain (mono) to say channel 1 (you can pan this left or right) and the BT to the stereo left and right line level inputs (shown to the right of channel 12 in the diagram).

The following web link should help:

http://www.audiominds.com/training/manu ... ctions.pdf

The mixer line outputs can go to to your PA or camcord inputs.

Regards

Gary

[abel]

Hi Folks,

Thank you much for your input.

Jim,
On my Camcorder, it says the higher the Sampling and the bit rate, the better the sound, but you get a bigger file.

Gary,
Actually each input is going to a stereo channel on the mixer.
Both channels are going to 1 stereo channel on the Camcorder input.
I will check your link.

The tips Stuart gave did actually help. I kept each of the stereo channels on the mixer unpanned and the level on each
channel was kept as in on the output Camcorder stereo channel. The guitar doesn't seem to cover the backing track.

You can listen to the result here and let me know what you think:



Thank you all,
Abel

[Garystrat]

Hi Abel,

I have listened to your video/read your comments and believe my earlier post still holds good, this is why it possibly sounds better when you pan everything centre (great playing BTW!).

Basically the connection to the camcorder is pretty straight forward and shouldn’t make any difference if the mixer connections are right, in the diagram the line output shown for the “phones” on the right.

I ran a Shadows Club for 6 years and did the setting up of the gear and quite a bit of roadie work for a local guitarist, so I’m pretty familiar with mixer routing and connections. These days I do everything via computer using an audio interface and DAW and have helped quite a few people with their home recording setups.

What you need is to use one channel on the mixer for the guitar chain, this outputs as mono to left and right channels on the output of the mixer (this can be panned in the mix and other mixer settings on that channel will apply only to that).

Whatever device you are using for backing tracks has a stereo left and right output, if you use the line input on the channels this is mono and you would need to use two channels for left hand right, but of course you end up needing to adjust each channel and pan them correctly left and right to get the correct stereo effect. This is why there is a dedicated line input for this purpose and they are separate from the channels.

In the diagram its where the phono inputs are shown for the “Effects Unit” (your layout might be slightly different). When you are using these the device/player (Mini Disc, CD Player, iPad or similar) for the backing track controls volume levels and everything going into this input.

Hope that helps,

Regards

Gary

PS: I have re-read your original post over a couple more time to try and get an idea of whats happening and I’m now wondering if the guitar chain also has a stereo output from the echo or other pedal?

Just an idea, but It might be helpful if you posted a photo of the connections on the mixer?

[SJB]

Hi Abel,

I have now looked at the camera manual.
Ok so the camera was set to auto gain. As far as level is controlled your guitar will now not affect the the mix.
I note there are several options for auto. Concert probably has a slow release - i.e. once it has turned down it will take some time to turn back up if the sound level goes lower. The attack i.e. its very fast to turn down.
The Solo - as with a lot of singers a quick turn down and a faster release than Concert. This compresses the voice.
Meeting will have a fast attack and release.
For your recording as you are doing it - OFF is the one required.
It's a pity they don't describe how the settings work.

I have listened to your video example - its ok. Backing track remains constant. Personally I would lower the level from your guitar a bit. This is a personal thing.

I don't think the USB camera connection can be used for digital recording - it can be a web camera - but if its like mine the quality is rubbish.

When I make a video I let the camera record the video and my Daw the audio. I then marry the exported Daw track with the Audio either in my Daw or using a video editor.
I doing it this way I can properly sync the video with the audio - sometimes this sync is not good with some camera's.
With a video editing package you can split out the audio from the video - and re-adjust the sync.

By having the sound track on the Daw - if you do a cracking performance - and then your not happy with the sound balance - then you can alter the balance and re-insert it into the video.

You could cheat and correct mistakes - but the astute viewer will see it. I don't correct mistakes. (It's been a Blue Day Extra note !!!!)

Good luck - everyone keep safe

Stu

[abel]

Hi Folks,

While I am impressed by your recording skills and expertise, that's a bit above my head.
Anyway, I took detailed pictures of all my connections but I don't know how to upload them here. They require a URL.

I would appreciate some help here, or maybe an email address where I can send them (2.66 MB total)

Thank you much,
Abel

[Garystrat]

Hi Abel,

I have sent you a PM!

Regards

Gary