List of settings

[dave robinson]

Thanks for that Paul. I guess the wear & tear coupled with how the motors react to different power supplies would have a bearing on those figures, as by todays standards the measurements would have been pretty crude back then.
With the new kit that's available I mostly use my ears and memory, sometimes using the tap tempo in a live situation and it works just fine.

[MeBHank]

Having measured the echo timings from the original recordings I found no evidence of the use of variable speed on any of the Shadows tunes, apart from Zambesi (running slower) and possibly Flingel Bunt. The head amplitudes certainly change but not the basic head timing, apart from some quite small variations that are probably due to wear and changes in head pressure. This applies to both the Echomatic 1's (5 and 6 head machines) and the Echomatic 2's and the timings are essentially as shown on the TVS web site. There were versions of those machines with variable speed provided by either tapered or stepped drive pulleys, but no evidence of their use by The Shadows.

Fascinating stuff, Paul. Are you suggesting that it's likely Hank's Echomatic 2 didn't have a tapered drive pulley? I was unaware that they were ever made without them; have you come across evidence? The varying head amplitudes interest me because, as I'm sure you know, the control of the levels of the first three heads was built into the speed control: the faster the motor was set the louder those three heads were. It's a while since I've had an analogue echo working, but on my Meazzi I regularly altered the motor speed to match the records. Maybe not so much variation with the Echomatic 1 settings, but certainly with the Echomatic 2 tracks.

Hank has said in interview plenty of times that he would make sure to set the echo speed to match the tempo of the piece. I don't think Hank had the need to significantly alter the speed that often, but if it never changed then the variable nature of the head levels would raise unanswered questions in my mind - from a purely technical point of view, even if I'd never had a Meazzi. For example, head four "kicks back" much more on Wonderful Land than on Peace Pipe due to lower volume of heads 1, 2 & 3. As I said, the levels of those heads only changed when the speed control was altered.

I love this sort of chat. I've missed this.

[rockinscott]

More interesting info Justin, even though I have read about the Echomatic 2 having variable speed I assumed it was all of them and also i thought that the volume of heads 1, 2 and 3 had worked in the same way as on my ESE with a dedicated control regardless of the speed of the motor.

Scott

[fenderplucker]

Hi Justin,

If Hank's Echomatic 2 was the adjustable speed version, then there would be a correlation between the level of heads 1-3 and the delay timings. However, there is no correlation observed in the measured data. For example, The Savage, KonTiki, Foot Tapper and Dance On all have a head 4 delay of around 352 mSec with heads 1-3 about 5-6 dB below head 4, whereas The Miracle also has a head 4 delay of about 352 mSec but heads 1-3 only about 1dB below head 4. Over all the Echomatic 2 era tunes that I have analyzed there is simply no systematic variation with the level of heads 1-3 and delay time. Furthermore, while the level of heads 1-3 changes over an 8dB range for the various tunes that used the Echomatic 2, the variation in delay time for head 4 is only from about 350 mSec to 370 mSec. This relatively small change in delay time could simply be due to wear and other factors.

Finally there is evidence that both fixed and variable speed Echomatic's were produced (according to Alan Jackson who also cited a Meazzi catalog in one of his Shadsfax articles) and so everything seems to point to Hank using a single speed version.

Paul.

[MeBHank]

That's brilliant, Paul. This is information I've never known. I guess it's the sort of thing you only discover if you have the right sampling equipment. A lot of my knowledge has been gleaned from people who, other than Charlie, have never studied the sound scientifically. I wish I'd known this stuff years ago - it answers a question which I've always had but which never quite forced itself to the front of my consciousness till now!

Out of interest, regarding Zambesi, what's the timing of of head 4? To my ears it's a fair bit slower. What do you think is the explanation for that slower speed?

[fenderplucker]

Hi Justin,

I measured the echo timings for Zambesi as: 122; 231; 330 and 417 mSec. Heads 1&2 are about 5 dB below head 4 while head 3 is about 8 dB down on head 4. These timings could either be an Echomatic 2 running about 17% slower than normal (117; 234; 328 and 421) or the first 4 heads of a J (121; 238; 331 and 424). The Echomatic 2 would allow the level of heads 1-3 to be below head 4 (head 3 possibly a little out of alignment to be a bit lower in amplitude than heads 1 & 2), but the J would not unless the internal trim pots were adjusted accordingly. Furthermore, the J does not normally allow for selection of heads 1-4 and feedback from head 4 and so that would also have to be changed. That would have required a fair bit of fiddling so my guess is that it was probably a variable speed Echomatic 2, though the J cannot be ruled out.

The intriguing thing is that Flingel Bunt was recorded just a few days earlier (25/2/64) so could Hank have used a variable speed Echomatic 2 on that as well? Flingel Bunt is a hard tune to analyze since there are no clear echo tails, only overlapping bunches of distorted echoes. I tried the timings for a slow Echomatic 2, J, F (both with various head selections) and Long Tom, and only the Long Tom timings reproduced the way the echo bunches form and decay in exactly the same way as on the original recording (though with non-standard head amplitudes). There is a photo in Jim Elyea's book of the Shadows in a studio with a Long Tom somewhere around that time, so it's not impossible that it was indeed a Long Tom used on that recording.

Paul.

[MeBHank]

I'm glad you're willing to entertain the idea of Hank having a second Echomatic 2, Paul. For years I've thought that was a possibility. I think it's more likely than Hank going back to echo units he'd not used in three years, even if they had long been seen on stage as backup for the Model 2. That last point, though, does raise another question: if Hank had two Echomatic 2s why there are so many shots of the Echomatic 1 (usually the J, I believe) being used as backup, and none of two stacked Model 2s (AFAIK)?

I'm aware of the studio pic you mention, and I do agree there's a good chance of the Long Tom being used on Flingel Bunt. It would make sense, having being designed by Dick. I believe the Vox echoes were heavily based on the Meazzis, so it would make sense for Dick to encourage Hank to try his new creation.

It all adds to the beautiful mystery, to the legend of Shads history. I know Bruce loves the 'mystique', as he calls it, and that no-one really knows.

[roger bayliss]

When they did that Royal variety show 1962, the Meazzi failed and they had no back up for the show. Hank played through the Meazzi but no echos I recall. So they had no spare unit in 1962, yet there are photos of 2 units on stage in existence. Maybe they needed high maintenance and were often in for service. The echos were not there but the core tone is clear in that show.

I do think the Long Tom was used for Flingel and subscribe to that and what Paul says tends to add more weight to that and sounds likely Zzmbezi too.

[fenderplucker]

Hi Roger,

I'm not sure if you are saying that Zambesi might also be Long Tom or if I misunderstood your post. The head timings of the Long Tom do not match the delays for Zambesi, so I think it was definitely a Meazzi.

Paul.

[roger bayliss]

Hi Roger,

I'm not sure if you are saying that Zambesi might also be Long Tom or if I misunderstood your post. The head timings of the Long Tom do not match the delays for Zambesi, so I think it was definitely a Meazzi.

Paul.

Actually Paul I think it was me who mis read your post LOL