Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

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Re: Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

Postby bor64 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:34 am

Joe , great view on this never ending story...
I try to say about the same in most of the f red discussions, the pink story is just a matter of light in different situations....
I own 9 f red guitars and not one looks the same in the same light....all guitars "change in colour" when I walk thru the house.
I've seen red, orange, pinkish, and all in between.....
I have a book with a colour photo from the stage scene of expresso bongo, all colours are very natural....the faces colours etc are very natural and every face has it's own colour not all the same.
So it's not a b/w pic coloured in...the guitar looks red and not pink......that colour comes very close to my original 58, more then all of my other f reds....

Cheers Rob
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Re: Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

Postby scouserjoe2 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:43 am

You're welcome, Peter. Indeed you are right. This subject is like Christmas - it keeps coming up year after year ! This is probably the third or fourth time that I have written about the interpretation of colour on one forum or another yet people continue to speculate.

Rob, working with colours and colour bias can be extremely difficult, and getting a colour right in any particular application requires care and precision. Minor changes to one area of an image can seriously affect another part of the same image. Skin tone is one of the worst colours to try and work with and you would be surprised how many different skin tones there are. With regards to the colour of an object in a room, it is affected not only by direct light, but also reflected light. The floor, wall, ceiling and curtain colouring can also affect how you seen the item. In corporate applications, where colour is important, a client and supplier will always refer to a recognised standard colour chart, such as Pantone or RAL. This way the two parties know that they are referring to exactly the same colour. A similar system is used in the UK today for motor car colours, so that any repair carried out on the paintwork of a vehicle will produce a perfect match to the original.

One thing is 100% certain .. the eye is never ever an accurate judge of colour.

Cheers, Ian
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Re: Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

Postby strat21 » Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:06 pm

When I first started playing in groups ,at school in Nuneaton there were a few older "boys" who also played in groups ,one in particular comes to mind who played in a band called the Rave Ons .In conversation one day he remarked that there lead guitarist was getting a Stratocaster,a Salmon Pink one.Why did he call it a Salmon Pink if it was a Red one,the answer is because it looked Salmon Pink.The nearest colour to a guitar that I saw in a shop window (Cranes in Coventry) are those that were made in Japan for the Hank Marvin Signature model , and these are are closer to a pink than a the custom shop fiesta red that I also own .My recollection of this time that the colour of the guitars was definately salmon pink ,although to add spice to the argument,if you looka at Hanks strat on the Shadows to the Fore E P ,that guitar looks very close to the Fiesta Red of the guitars of today. Tin hat on Strat 21
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Re: Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

Postby Didier » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:27 am

Keep in mind that many fiesta red Strats sold in the UK were delivered from the US in sunburst, and then repainted in fiesta red by JMI to meet the local demand for this colour. This was the case for the two Strats (with rosewood fingerboard) supplied to Hank and Bruce by JMI in 1961.
Of course this JMI fiesta red wasn't necessarily exactly the same as the Fender US one...

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Re: Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

Postby chas » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:34 pm

Didier wrote:Keep in mind that many fiesta red Strats sold in the UK were delivered from the US in sunburst, and then repainted in fiesta red by JMI to meet the local demand for this colour. This was the case for the two Strats (with rosewood fingerboard) supplied to Hank and Bruce by JMI in 1961.
Of course this JMI fiesta red wasn't necessarily exactly the same as the Fender US one...Didier


That's interesting Didier - I've read in the past about Selmer re-spraying, so I guess it's not unreasonable to assume that JMI were doing it too (although you have to question how financially viable it may have been to do that - strip down/re-spray/re-build), though I've never before heard that the rosewood neck models that JMI supplied to The Shadows had been re-sprayed.

About colour photos & printing - I'd never trust printing (e.g. Shadows To The Fore) for colour accuracy, and have you tried taking a photo of a Fiesta Red Fender and getting it to look quite the same as in real life? Not easy, for all the reasons mentioned earlier in the thread...
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Re: Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

Postby dave robinson » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:38 am

You do get fed up of the same old, same old, it's been done to death. Flamingo Pink and Salmon Pink were names that were NEVER used by Fende, they were words used to describe the colour at the time, as nobody knew about the name fiesta red. We' have access to a '59 Strat in fiesta red that is all original, just a few digits away from Hank's 34346 and it's identical in colour to my late eighties Fender USA Vintage '62. It looks different shades of red & pink under various lighting conditions.
I'm with Scouser Joe, always have thought along those lines. :)
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Re: Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

Postby Didier » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:07 am

chas wrote:
Didier wrote:Keep in mind that many fiesta red Strats sold in the UK were delivered from the US in sunburst, and then repainted in fiesta red by JMI to meet the local demand for this colour. This was the case for the two Strats (with rosewood fingerboard) supplied to Hank and Bruce by JMI in 1961.
Of course this JMI fiesta red wasn't necessarily exactly the same as the Fender US one...Didier

That's interesting Didier - I've read in the past about Selmer re-spraying, so I guess it's not unreasonable to assume that JMI were doing it too (although you have to question how financially viable it may have been to do that - strip down/re-spray/re-build), though I've never before heard that the rosewood neck models that JMI supplied to The Shadows had been re-sprayed.

The information came from Hank being interviewed in a french magazine long ago. Here is the translation of what he said :

Hank :
The (import) ban had just been removed, and people at Vox got an exclusive import contract for Fender products. The first packages contained some Precision Bass, some Stratocaster and Telecaster. This is why Bruce was shot with a Telecaster and Jet with a Precision Bass to promote the Fender range. Meanwhile two stratocaster and one Precision Bass were specially painted in fiesta red for us so we would all have a guitar of the same colour. We got them a few days later. So I gave back to Cliff my first Strat which wasn't really mine.


BTW, the interviewer was no one else than guitarist Marcel Dadi, one of the best European finger picking specialist who died in the crash of flight TWA 800 in 1996, when coming back from Nasville where he was just introduced to the Country Music Hall of Fame.

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Re: Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

Postby MikeAB » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:18 am

I used to work in plastics manufacture and our colourists were highly expert people. 'Metamarism' I think was the technical term for colours changing under different lights - and our guys and gals always asked 'what light' so that they could formulate using a suitable light in a lab light box - eg 'day' light or 'fluorescent' light etc. Customers often argued!!
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Re: Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

Postby bor64 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:22 pm

Dave, I remember like you countless threats about this colour.... a few years ago you showed some pics of that 59 strat with it's rare single layer pick guard(for a rosewood board).
Back then it was great to see the pictures of both guitars, I suggested pictures taken of both guitars in neutral light ....but for reasons known by us both(btw the score is now 2-3 for me ;P) it didn't become reality.
Most of the time when this subject is coming around again, I not jump in, but in this case the written explanation by Ian are my thoughts and ideas exactly...
The story about re-spraying the guitars in Britain is also a hard to kill urban legend. More then 15 years ago in the guitar magazine, there was article about relicing and original custom colours on Fender...also a side article about the British re-spray....They interviewed many old employees of Selmer and also JMI and not any of them re-collect any re-sprays and all said we didn't have the knowledge, the equipment and the time to do such task...that was much later post 66/67 ish
Also a nice eye opener is the remark of George Fullerton " we shipped the red guitars by shiploads to Europe everybody wanted red red and red...." the paint was barely dry and we send them out"
The mixing of paint was done in a much simple way back then...so it's not difficult to expect some irregularities between batches...
Like you wrote disassembly a strat and re-spray and again putting together and set up it, by the dozens is a massive task and it would cost a few bob....

tin hat in place

Cheers Rob
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Re: Fiesta Red, Flamingo pink...or colour filter on cameras?

Postby GoldenStreet » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:22 pm

scouserjoe2 wrote:One thing is 100% certain .. the eye is never ever an accurate judge of colour.

... and it's debatable that, as individuals, all we all perceive colour differently. An ever fascinating subject!

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