Roman Red (that Fiesta Red topic again)

[abstamaria]

Ah, perfecting my art form.

I’m afraid, Dave, that I long ago accepted that my talents are very limited and will not permit me to achieve the levels you occupy. I watch my cousin, who plays jazz guitar professionally in California, and realize that I would never be the artist he is. (But I do keep practicing. Hope springs eternal.) In any event, my musical goals are very modest. I just want to sound like Hank Marvin in his pre-Burns days. I am 60% there.

The scholastic approach to the hobby, trying to find out as much as possible about The Shadows, their gear, the strings they used, their stories, and so on, and pursuing little facts, uninteresting to the rest of the world, probably is a matter of personality and bent (encouraged in my case by a profound lack of talent). I have many interests too, which often get in the way, but there too, I tend to enjoy history and information.

For instance, I have for many, many decades been very much into historic sports cars and have accumulated quite a library of books and so much information—“crap,” as Dave calls it—on the hobby. I used to compete in the vintage race series, principally in a 1962 Lotus 23 (I am faithful to the period). I know that, if I had spent time on the race circuit, “perfecting my art form,” as Dave rightfully suggests, instead of reading all those books, I would have been more competitive, But winning was never the point for me, as being an accomplished and successful guitarist as Dave is was never really the point for me. I loved the Lotus and wanted to know as much about it as I could; on the track, I wanted to know how the car moved, how it sounded, and to feel how Jim Clark must have felt in his 23 at the Nürburgring. Winning was not the point. Let me quote how the motorsport governing body the Federation Internationale de l’Automobile (the FIA) describes vintage racing:

“Historic competition is not simply another formula in which to acquire trophies, it is a discipline apart, in which one of the essential ingredients is a devotion to the cars and to their history.”

The FIA says the races enable “the active celebration of the history of the motorcar.” It is the same way I would describe my foray into the world of The Shadows. I want to know them and their music better. That, at least to me, adds much depth and substance to the hobby.

By the way, in the vintage sports car world, British Racing Green is the equivalent of Fiesta Red. The local sports car club’s official color is French Racing Blue (chosen because no one had a French car at the time, so the choice was neutral). FRB, favored by the magnificent pre-war Bugatti Type 35s (I want one), itself is a chase. There is no agreement on the correct shade. Ultimately, the club settled on the shade of a Gitanes pack. But that is all crap, as Dave rightfully notes.

In the meantime, I’ll continue on these little pursuits. Perhaps there are others here similarly inclined.

With good wishes,

Andy

[dave robinson]

Andy, it isn't about any amount of success, it isn't a contest either, it ought to be about the enjoyment of the music - nothing more.
The truth is, Hank has had that name given to him as when I discussed it with him face to face he didn't really know what the name of the colour was. I enjoyed lovely conversations with him on several occasions and he really is baffled by the need for meaningless detail about stuff such as the colour and I actually stole his words in my post earlier on. He more or less said it the same way, saying people ought to develop their own twist on the style he created instead of trying to clone him and he made me laugh by saying he thought it was a shame they had nothing more of importance to talk about and get a life, as life really is too short, as I almost found out.
We have an original, untouched 1959 fiesta red Strat which is a few digits away from 34346 , probably made during in the same week or month and it could well be the same paint batch. Guess what ? It's a perfect clone in colour to the Fiesta Red on the late 80s/early nineties AVRI Stratocasters' that were manufactured as 'Historic Closet Classics'. The red does have a pinkish hue, rather than the orange that some appear to have. But at the end of the day, the joy comes from playing it and the reaction of people listening.

[bor64]

Left '58 red-Right '60 red

I'm not brave enough to call the reds by name

Taken with my 13Meg phone cam.

Cheers Rob

[Didier]

A this time in the USA, car makers used to change colour choice every year. I suspect that Leo Fenfer bought remaining stocks of paint from previous years at discounted prices !

Didier

[bor64]

The story of mixing some paint at the local paint store and creating the Fiesta Red colour and it happens to be a spitting image of the paint on a Ford T-Bird....,
In retrospective in my view a story that happens in reversed order is more a possibility...walking on the pavement and passing a few 2219-H painted T-Bird's during some time.
Then going to a paint store and ended up with that colour because you like the Ford's colour is more the truth I reckon.
Funny thing is, almost all the old geezers of the early days at Fender are claiming(in past interviews or publishings) their involvement in events ....while the next one claims the same.
On top of my head five are claiming they are the reason the strat has the back-curve to ease your ribcage or the armrest curve...etc.

Cheers Rob

[davec]

Dave,

If that "...few digits away from..." Strat is available then a get a small paint chip to the lab-rats at CSI and they'll be able to identify the top-coat and base coat exactly!

Think what you'd be doing for the sum of world knowledge.



DaveC.

It's the "not knowing" that haunts me...

[abstamaria]

Dave, I can understand that.

Hank is an artist. To make music is the most important thing to him. All else, including the colour of a guitar he happened to use in1960, are trivia.

On the other hand, I’m not a musician. I chase after Hank’s early sound and also the band’s (we use a J100 even on stage) almost as a technical, forensic exercise. I enjoy playing guitar, of course, but making music is not my sole interest as regards The Shadows. I enjoy finding out things about them, the instruments they used, whether indeed anyone knows for sure that 35346 was painted a color named “Fiesta Red.”

As with most groups, this forum is made up of people who, although drawn by the same general topic, focus on different aspects of it. Some, like you, Dave, are musicians and are happiest perfecting that art. Others are happy simply to pursue The Sound. Some may not even play guitar but are intrigued by the history of the group. What “getting a life” means depends on where you are in that spectrum.

(Yes, life is short. I gather from your message, Dave, that you had a close call. If so, I’m sorry for that, but happy you pulled through and are here, discussing this. In 2008, I almost perished with a few friends on a sailing yacht caught by a major typhoon in the middle of the China Sea. I decided to produce a number of concerts after that, playing lead guitar. Life is short.)

The good thing about this forum is that we are interested in the same subject, but are different in what we focus on. If we were all the same, it would be boring.

[abstamaria]

Very interesting comparison, Didier.

[abstamaria]

Left '58 red-Right '60 red

I'm not brave enough to call the reds by name

Cheers Rob

It seems from these discussions that you are right not calling them by name.

(It is perhaps not surprising that the shades are different. They probably mixed them by eye in those days.)

Regards,

Andy

[bor64]

Andy,

You've right they are different !
Mater of fact all my 9 Fiesta Reds are different in shade...
My aug 58 has a greyish undercoat like Hanks dec 58 and the 60 has a whitish undercoat with a hinge of very light yellow(Fullerplast?) in places...so no wonder they look different...
6 others are pristine so no clue of under coat, my early 61 Bass VI (pre series not jet Bass VI decal just Fender on head) was re-sprayed several times in the past.
It started 3 tone SB, Daphne Blue, some pillock sprayed it school-bus yellow, so I decided to re-sprayed it Fiesta.

BTW they mixed by weight back then, if the formula was known.

Cheers Rob