Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

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Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

Postby David Martin » Wed Apr 22, 2020 8:51 am

This is the smaller brother of the Tonemaster Twin Reverb now used by Robbo. To be honest, I got it to satisfy my curiosity as to whether Fender really have got this right, or not. These days, my need is for an amp which works well for me playing blues with the band, both lead and rhythm when I'm singing. And, of course, a good Shads sound for playing at home.

I have found the Katana to be incredibly versatile when used with the GA-FC foot panel, and tweaked with Tone Studio, and it has easily met my band requirements, together with some acceptable Shads noises used with an H&C echo machine. So, tough competition for the Fender.

It's lighter than the Katana 100 1x12 by some way, no doubt due to the light weight pine cabinet and the Jensen Neodymium speaker. No heavy particle board here, it is very easily carried and lifted with one hand. The valve amp it emulates is rated at 22 watts, but this, like the Twin Reverb has a Class D digital power amp rated at 100 watts. It has two channels, Normal, and Vibrato, each with two inputs each with different sensitivity to to give more or less clean headroom. And each channel has a different voice; Normal is slightly darker. Both channels have Vol, Treble and Bass, with extra controls on the Vibrato channel for Reverb and what I would call tremelo...

So... to the meat. It sounds and feels just like a valve amp. Surprisingly, the Normal channel input 2 offers the best Shadows tone; better than I have been able to achieve with my Katana, and the Vibrato channel gives me wonderful stratty tones under volume 5, and great blues tones at higher settings which clean up using my guitar volume control. And of course, using the output control on the back, you can go from 0.2 watts to 22 watts in 5 stages. The tone controls are super effective as are Reverb and Vibrato... In short, it behaves like the real thing.

In summary, it's a winner. I paid £795 for mine - including a cover. A great deal when compared with the valve version, and less than half the weight. And if you want simplicity in comparison to the Katana, this is it. Recommended.
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Re: Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

Postby dave robinson » Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:58 am

I'm pleased that you have discovered the merits of this amp David and that you have said virtually exactly what I am saying. I did have my doubts when it was released and it was my friend and sound man Paul who dug a little deeper and mentioned it to me having heard some YouTube demos. Seven months ago I rang around the shops advertising these amps and most of them didn't actually have one in stock, but just as I was ready to forget the idea, I made a call to Merchant City Music in Glasgow and had a quick chat, confirming that if I didn't like it, then I could return it. Once that was established I paid and it was here less than 24 hours later.
I had a Fender Twin Reverb with JBLs for almost twenty years, so I knew what I should expect to hear, but not only did I immediately hear it's trademark sound, I soon found that it did more, by way of it's excellent Jensen Neodymium P12 clones. On the old Fender I used to struggle to 'tame' the clarity from the JBLs, which made it harsh for Shadows music by comparison to the Vox AC 30 because those JBL speakers are too damn good and don't break up in a musical way. I had to take all the treble off as well as all the bass, using only the MID to get anywhere like the Hank sound and there was no master volume and gain control, so it was pure loudness. On the new Tonemaster there is a power control so it's easy to set it at 22watts and drive the front end as you would a 30watt Vox, giving a musical 'break up' and pushing into a 'distressed' sound as Hank achieved on those early tracks. This is also helped by the Jensen speakers as they too are 'softer' than the harsh JBLs. I still have to keep the bass control down for Shads stuff, but perhaps on the DeLuxe version the controls work slightly different as there isn't a MID control.
Regarding all the opinions of people slagging off the new technology, that's all it is really as some people won't let go of valves. I use my ears and to me this is the way forward, but it isn't only me because people listen and come and tell me that the sound is spot on - those are the only opinions that really matter.
True enough I blew the trumpet for the Boss Katana, but hats off to Fender, this is better. :)
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Re: Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

Postby David Martin » Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:05 pm

This is now the third generation of computer modelled amp I've used with success. The original Blackstar TVP was very good, and, in turn, the Katana was better. Now the Fender is better still by concentrating on a more limited task, but in considerable depth. They were also wise to spend money on a resonant real wood cabinet and a decent speaker. I wonder what Boss will do with MkIII Katana in response?

To be fair, none of these amps are as good as my old 1964 AC30 TB... but with every generation they get closer and offer me a whole basket full of advantages the Vox couldn't offer. Given the might of Korg, it surely would be possible to follow Fender's lead and model a good '60s AC30 in real depth at an affordable price?
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Re: Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

Postby Egelund » Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:44 pm

Hi all

Everything is great with this amp.
Weigth, simplicity like the tube model, nice details for use with PA or studio


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/oyttto8arw0x ... C_0027.MOV

regards
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Re: Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

Postby dave robinson » Wed Apr 22, 2020 11:47 pm

I too was wondering if it would be a good move by Korg to do what David said and bring us a super lightweight Vox AC30, but they haven't they already kind of touched on it with the AC30vr? I know it's not in the same class but I had one briefly and they look great, it needed Neodymium speakers and a lighter cabinet and the EQ tweaking a little. :idea:
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Re: Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

Postby JimN » Thu Apr 23, 2020 2:00 am

The Vox AC30VR is a solid state amp of only 30 watts output. Low nominal power rating is always problematic with such devices, since no matter what anyone says in their defence, a given (measured) output from a transistor amp is always apparently less than the same measured output from a quality valve amp. This could be for a number of reasons, including cheaper and lower quality components and speakers being fitted, but whatever the reason, there is a justified perception that solid state watts aren't as powerful as valve watts.

I only know two people who've had the AC30VR and both of them were dissatisfied with the lack of power. They'd bought the amps on the assumption that they would be as loud as proper AC30s. But they weren't. My estimate is that a valve AC15 with one 12" speaker would see off the AC30VR. And there is no doubt that a Fender Deluxe Reverb, with its 22 watts power, certainly would.

And really, the solution for manufacturer is quite simple: supply solid state versions of valve amps with a power output that (theoretically, at least) exceeds that of the valve version. For instance, the AC30VR could have been supplied - at little, if any, extra manufacturing cost - with a sixty watt output stage and circuitry to support that. Such an amp would stand a better chance of competing in an environment where the AC30TB is more at home.

Nearly 40 years ago, I bought a USA-made Acoustic Solutions combo with 4x10" speakers, the amp being rated at 40 watts. It was effectively useless in the function band I was playing in especially when trying to compete with organ. Simply not loud enough to compete with the HH amps being used by the others. I PXd that combo for a Peavey Renown rated at 210 watts. The Peavey was certainly loud enough... but then, at that rating, it should have been.
Last edited by JimN on Thu Apr 23, 2020 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

Postby Egelund » Thu Apr 23, 2020 7:52 am

Sorry to correct the question of output.
You cannot compare 30 watt tube to 60 watt transistor.
The Vox VR amps, are cheap and properly not aimed to the market of high end amps.
I have had al sorts of amps, and just sold my Fender super sonic 22 Pro serie tube amp, changed it to Fender tonemaster deluxe reverb.
Even live, I have never had the volume pass 5. (out of 10)I
I have a handwired JMI 15, tube amp, and it is so loud.
I have used it for live work, in fairly big places, and I have never had the volume more than 3 o`clock.
´The real difference with the new Fender amps, is that they have left the idea, that a transistor amp, should have endless numbers of feautures and efects.
In stead they have spent everything on the task, to make it sound really like a tube amp.
I had my super sonic 22 (very similar to deluxe reverb) and now use the tonemaster, and I am pleased.

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Re: Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

Postby Vincent » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:47 am

Egelund wrote:Sorry to correct the question of output.
You cannot compare 30 watt tube to 60 watt transistor.
The Vox VR amps, are cheap and properly not aimed to the market of high end amps.
I have had al sorts of amps, and just sold my Fender super sonic 22 Pro serie tube amp, changed it to Fender tonemaster deluxe reverb.
Even live, I have never had the volume pass 5. (out of 10)I
I have a handwired JMI 15, tube amp, and it is so loud.
I have used it for live work, in fairly big places, and I have never had the volume more than 3 o`clock.
´The real difference with the new Fender amps, is that they have left the idea, that a transistor amp, should have endless numbers of feautures and efects.
In stead they have spent everything on the task, to make it sound really like a tube amp.
I had my super sonic 22 (very similar to deluxe reverb) and now use the tonemaster, and I am pleased.

Niels

.
Last edited by Vincent on Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

Postby Vincent » Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:26 pm

JimN wrote:The Vox AC30VR is a solid state amp of only 30 watts output. Low nominal power rating is always problematic with such devices, since no matter what anyone says in their defence, a given (measured) output from a transistor amp is always apparently less than the same measured output from a quality valve amp. This could be for a number of reasons, including cheaper and lower quality components and speakers being fitted, but whatever the reason, there is a justified perception that solid state watts aren't as powerful as valve watts.

I only know two people who've had the AC30VR and both of them were dissatisfied with the lack of power. They'd bought the amps on the assumption that they would be as loud as proper AC30s. But they weren't. My estimate is that a valve AC15 with one 12" speaker would see off the AC30VR. And there is no doubt that a Fender Deluxe Reverb, with its 22 watts power, certainly would.

And really, the solution for manufacturer is quite simple: supply solid state versions of valve amps with a power output that (theoretically, at least) exceeds that of the valve version. For instance, the AC30VR could have been supplied - at little, if any, extra manufacturing cost - with a sixty watt output stage and circuitry to support that. Such an amp would stand a better chance of competing in an environment where the AC30TB is more at home.

Nearly 40 years ago, I bought a USA-made Acoustic Solutions combo with 4x10" speakers, the amp being rated at 40 watts. It was effectively useless in the function band I was playing in especially when trying to compete with organ. Simply not loud enough to compete with the HH amps being used by the others. I PXd that combo for a Peavey Renown rated at 210 watts. The Peavey was certainly loud enough... but then, at that rating, it should have been.


.
Last edited by Vincent on Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

Postby dave robinson » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:03 pm

Vincent wrote:
JimN wrote:The Vox AC30VR is a solid state amp of only 30 watts output. Low nominal power rating is always problematic with such devices, since no matter what anyone says in their defence, a given (measured) output from a transistor amp is always apparently less than the same measured output from a quality valve amp. This could be for a number of reasons, including cheaper and lower quality components and speakers being fitted, but whatever the reason, there is a justified perception that solid state watts aren't as powerful as valve watts.

I only know two people who've had the AC30VR and both of them were dissatisfied with the lack of power. They'd bought the amps on the assumption that they would be as loud as proper AC30s. But they weren't. My estimate is that a valve AC15 with one 12" speaker would see off the AC30VR. And there is no doubt that a Fender Deluxe Reverb, with its 22 watts power, certainly would.

And really, the solution for manufacturer is quite simple: supply solid state versions of valve amps with a power output that (theoretically, at least) exceeds that of the valve version. For instance, the AC30VR could have been supplied - at little, if any, extra manufacturing cost - with a sixty watt output stage and circuitry to support that. Such an amp would stand a better chance of competing in an environment where the AC30TB is more at home.

Nearly 40 years ago, I bought a USA-made Acoustic Solutions combo with 4x10" speakers, the amp being rated at 40 watts. It was effectively useless in the function band I was playing in especially when trying to compete with organ. Simply not loud enough to compete with the HH amps being used by the others. I PXd that combo for a Peavey Renown rated at 210 watts. The Peavey was certainly loud enough... but then, at that rating, it should have been.


I had an AC30VR until 10 year ago, I remember the issue was not so much volume but the general tone or voicing, no character at all..


The Vox AC30vr wasn't introduced until the autumn of 2010, I don't understand how you managed to own one until then ? :|
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