Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb amp

[Stu's Dad]

The Vox AC30VR is a solid state amp of only 30 watts output. Low nominal power rating is always problematic with such devices, since no matter what anyone says in their defence, a given (measured) output from a transistor amp is always apparently less than the same measured output from a quality valve amp. This could be for a number of reasons, including cheaper and lower quality components and speakers being fitted, but whatever the reason, there is a justified perception that solid state watts aren't as powerful as valve watts.

I only know two people who've had the AC30VR and both of them were dissatisfied with the lack of power. They'd bought the amps on the assumption that they would be as loud as proper AC30s. But they weren't. My estimate is that a valve AC15 with one 12" speaker would see off the AC30VR. And there is no doubt that a Fender Deluxe Reverb, with its 22 watts power, certainly would.

And really, the solution for manufacturer is quite simple: supply solid state versions of valve amps with a power output that (theoretically, at least) exceeds that of the valve version. For instance, the AC30VR could have been supplied - at little, if any, extra manufacturing cost - with a sixty watt output stage and circuitry to support that. Such an amp would stand a better chance of competing in an environment where the AC30TB is more at home.

Nearly 40 years ago, I bought a USA-made Acoustic Solutions combo with 4x10" speakers, the amp being rated at 40 watts. It was effectively useless in the function band I was playing in especially when trying to compete with organ. Simply not loud enough to compete with the HH amps being used by the others. I PXd that combo for a Peavey Renown rated at 210 watts. The Peavey was certainly loud enough... but then, at that rating, it should have been.

Fender have dealt with the output differential Jim. The Deluxe Reverb is rated at 100w, and the Twin Reverb at 200w.

Len

[JimN]

Sorry to correct the question of output.
You cannot compare 30 watt tube to 60 watt transistor.
The Vox VR amps, are cheap and properly not aimed to the market of high end amps...
Niels

But the cheaper SS amps would perform better (and be more useful) if they had more clean headroom.

I'm not necessarily talking about getting this or that tone from the amp. I purposely didn't mention the distinction between the sounds of valve amps and solid-state amps. I dwelt purely on the issue of volume and its adequacy or otherwise. If the Vox AC30VR had been provided with a 60 watt - or better still, a 100 watt - output stage, it would have been more useful than it was, to a range of players in varying styles.

[JimN]

Fender have dealt with the output differential Jim. The Deluxe Reverb is rated at 100w, and the Twin Reverb at 200w.

Len

For the money, Len, so they should!

After all, if Fender had taken the Vox AC30VR approach, they'd have equipped this new Tonemaster Deluxe reverb amps with a solid-state output of 22 watts.

It really illustrates my point.

[Stu's Dad]

I've heard one opinion that they priced them so high because they're so good they'd never sell the real thing again if they were as cheap as most solid state amps!

[dave robinson]

Why are people going on about the price of these amps ? By comparison to what we paid for an AC30 in 1963, mine was £105, using the Historic Inflation calculator this Fender Twin at that time would have cost a mere 43.10 and the Fender Deluxe £36.60 so it is far better value.

[Egelund]

Hi all

I do understand, that all the solid state amps would benefit from a higher output.
And by no means, will I claim that my ears or taste is better than anybody else.
But I have had a number of very good tube amps.
A trace elliott class A Velocette 15 w- Vos ac 15 standard - and with blue alnico - and heritage model.
And a JMI 13 blue alnico, expensive as h... still has it.
Vox ac 3o- Fender Hotrod 40w - Blues Junior, and for many years Fender super sonic 22.
I have followed the debate about Boss Katana and others.
I have owned ( for a short while) and tested Boss katana - Nextone, both quite good, Roland Jazz chorus 40, clean as in super clean, but had a noise.
Even an old Burns Orbitt double 12.
Lots of these amps would do nicely, but the tonemaster is the first one, that is for me, who really works and sound like a tube amp, only lighter and quiet.
And it is expensive, but I dont mind, like the sound and the low weight
I go for a good sound, with some spark.
My Fender amps sound different than my Vox/JMI, but I like the sound, has a lot of crisp and drive, especially for live..


Regards
Niels

[Vincent]

The Vox AC30VR is a solid state amp of only 30 watts output. Low nominal power rating is always problematic with such devices, since no matter what anyone says in their defence, a given (measured) output from a transistor amp is always apparently less than the same measured output from a quality valve amp. This could be for a number of reasons, including cheaper and lower quality components and speakers being fitted, but whatever the reason, there is a justified perception that solid state watts aren't as powerful as valve watts.

I only know two people who've had the AC30VR and both of them were dissatisfied with the lack of power. They'd bought the amps on the assumption that they would be as loud as proper AC30s. But they weren't. My estimate is that a valve AC15 with one 12" speaker would see off the AC30VR. And there is no doubt that a Fender Deluxe Reverb, with its 22 watts power, certainly would.

And really, the solution for manufacturer is quite simple: supply solid state versions of valve amps with a power output that (theoretically, at least) exceeds that of the valve version. For instance, the AC30VR could have been supplied - at little, if any, extra manufacturing cost - with a sixty watt output stage and circuitry to support that. Such an amp would stand a better chance of competing in an environment where the AC30TB is more at home.

Nearly 40 years ago, I bought a USA-made Acoustic Solutions combo with 4x10" speakers, the amp being rated at 40 watts. It was effectively useless in the function band I was playing in especially when trying to compete with organ. Simply not loud enough to compete with the HH amps being used by the others. I PXd that combo for a Peavey Renown rated at 210 watts. The Peavey was certainly loud enough... but then, at that rating, it should have been.

I had an AC30VR until 10 year ago, I remember the issue was not so much volume but the general tone or voicing, no character at all..

The Vox AC30vr wasn't introduced until the autumn of 2010, I don't understand how you managed to own one until then ?

To be more more accurate it was the VR 30 ..with the control panel at the front, 1 valve in power circuit. The AC30VR ..as you say, came later. Made to look like the AC30.

[dave robinson]

The Vox AC30vr wasn't introduced until the autumn of 2010, I don't understand how you managed to own one until then ? [/quote]
Vincent wrote;
To be more more accurate it was the VR 30 ..with the control panel at the front, 1 valve in power circuit. The AC30VR ..as you say, came later. Made to look like the AC30.[/quote]

So not the same amp

[Vincent]

The Vox AC30vr wasn't introduced until the autumn of 2010, I don't understand how you managed to own one until then ?

Vincent wrote;
To be more more accurate as I recall, it was the VR30 ..with the control panel at the front, valve reactor circuit (1 valve in output stage). The AC30VR ..as you say, came later. Made to look like a real AC30 but some reviews said the tone - or voicing wasn't as good as real thing.

.

[David Martin]

One of the considerations unmentioned by the critics of the price of the Tonemaster is the cabinet. The Katana combo cab is very heavy, made from fine wood chips bound with resin. The means of supporting the amp chassis is quite a complex construction of the same inflexible materials. The Tonemasters are made from resonant pine, which has always been known for its contribution to tone,

Similarly, the Katana speaker is quite harsh, though you can tame it to some extent using the global and graphic eqs. The Tonemaster speaker is from a well known aftermarket supplier. It does not have the Katana's fizzy top end.

On that basis, I think the price difference is defensible.