Do we need Guitar Amps???

[petercreasey]

Thanks for the replies, with time on my hands( even more than normal) it’s interesting to take stock of gear we are using and trying to make playing guitar as enjoyable as possible with as little effort (and expense) as we can. I have to thank Justin for pointing me in the direction of the AC tone, I didn’t believe that it was possible to achieve such success with such kit. Then I heard what can be done last year and the garden is my shrimp( can’t think as big as worlds and oysters!)
I do enjoy fiddling about with effects and stuff and am about to venture into the world of iRig, never know things could even get smaller.
Interesting that folks seem to prefer an amp playing with a band( particularly with an acoustic drum kit) not something I do very often nowadays but reading on t’inteweb I see more and more “big” outfits are turning to simulation. I read recently that Chicago have moved to a “silent stage” set up.
It will be interesting to see how things develop
Take care ......... stay safe

[Stuart]

For me it has to be my regular amp right behind me on stage. I like to be in full control of the sound which means not at the mercy of an unknown P.A . speaker 's particular sound characteristics which vary tremendously.The other reason is that monitor speakers also give a false impression of the out front sound both tonally and in terms of the mix balance.I have heard many bands with a poor mix on the main P.A. but they were happily unaware of this due to the mix being presented to them by their monitors.As most of us Shadows fans are not playing at huge venues with multi kilowatt P.A.systems, monitoring mixes should not be necessary.I always prefer to be able to trim the amp sound to suit the acoustics of the venue.Generally, the sound of your particular favourite amp cannot be perfectly matched by a d.i.feed into a P.A.Try it if you have the opportunity to have both systems side by side at the same venue.You will be surprised how different the two sound. There are so many subtle differences in amp eqs and especially in speaker characteristics that make up that particular sound that you are after.
Interestingly this is exactly the reason that the Trace Elliot bass amp came into being.Bass players were complaining that their amp sounds were not being accurately reproduced by the P.A. systems.The high powered Trace Elliots amps had very wide eq ranges were sufficiently powerful to not need D.I. feeds to The P.A. in a lot of cases.This kept the bass player directly in control of his sound.
The lead guitarist has a whole different set of requirements but the same problems with acoustic subleties that make up his particular sound.
Do try a side by side comparison with amp and d.i. though .You will be surprised at the difference.

[Garystrat]

Hi Justin,

There is no doubt that you get some great sounds on a modest budget with the Joyo AC Tone, but I believe your sound, performance and playing style was honed in those halcyon days of the “anorak ego”. The gear gave you the credibility, confidence and motivation to become quite an authority on such matters. The more laid back “you” probably still benefits greatly from the experience and learning curve, it’s just applied in a more relaxed way! LOL

I’m really enjoying watching the new “Lockdown Session” videos on your Facebook page too, every bit of the performer is still there and one can see that you’re having real fun, great stuff!

Sorry Peter, returning to topic:

In answer to your question, I believe that as digital technology improves there will less and less need for physical amps, but there will still be people who want to use them because they are either not comfortable with the digital technologies or feel that a valve amp still has better harmonics and a more authentic feel. I include the majority of modelling amps in the digital category because they often need to use software for deep editing.

The Joyo AC and the Tech 21 “Liverpool” are both analogue pedals, there were reasonably well founded arguments that that they had and edge over early software amp sims plugins, but of course in many cases they were mixed and matched with digital and maybe that didn’t hold up quite so well?

The original Tonelab’s were excellent too and it seems there are quiet a few still being put to good use, I must admit I regretted selling my LE at the time!

At that stage I went for a “Liverpool” Mk 2 with the Alnico Bulldog speaker emulation and Catlinbread Echorec on the basis they were both analogue, these are very good units in my opinion and I still have them today.

However, with increased computing power and quite a few options that one can throw into the mix, digital setups have improved considerably and offer a lot of possibilities, albeit that this sometimes comes at a price. I think this page from the new Line 6 “Model Citizens” blog sums it up quite nicely:

https://blog.line6.com/2019/12/03/cross ... to-choose/

For those with a wider interest in different kit and techniques , Pete Thorne’s YouTube channel is also a great source of information:

https://www.youtube.com/user/sinasl1

Pete is quite a proponent of speaker IR (Impulse Response), which is not surprising as in several videos he demonstrates the quality and tonal flexibility this gives him, but some might need resuscitation after discovering the cost of some his gear! LOL

I now use Line 6 Helix Native (ver. 1.9) or Scuffham S-Gear (ver. 2.9) plugins for amp sims, I have a really nice 5 watt boutique valve amp, but actually prefer the convenience and tonal flexibility of the software. The amp is very capable, but I agree with Justin’s comments on valve amps needing drive to find the sweet spot, which for me is not really practical in a home environment.

https://line6.com/helix/helixnative.html

https://www.scuffhamamps.com

To get the best out of software plugins they need to be properly gain staged, the amp plugins may even be more sensitive to drive/volume sweet spots, but one still has overall control of output levels. I also use Ableton Live 10 DAW, which is equally suited to both live play/recording and it has many other unique features, particularly for those interested in connectivity (Live Max), MIDI functionality and musical experimentation.

For me this is not a difficult choice as I’m well within my comfort zone using digit technologies, DAW’s and plugins. Others may well find it all totally baffling and either avoid it or only delve into it as far as they feel they need to, but in doing so may be missing out on the full potential!

Regards

Gary

[MeBHank]

Hi Justin,

There is no doubt that you get some great sounds on a modest budget with the Joyo AC Tone, but I believe your sound, performance and playing style was honed in those halcyon days of the “anorak ego”. The gear gave you the credibility, confidence and motivation to become quite an authority on such matters. The more laid back “you” probably still benefits greatly from the experience and learning curve, it’s just applied in a more relaxed way! LOL

I’m really enjoying watching the new “Lockdown Session” videos on your Facebook page too, every bit of the performer is still there and one can see that you’re having real fun, great stuff!

Thanks, Gary!

Absolutely, I learned a great amount when I started using old gear and taught myself the specific playing styles needed to achieve the sound (although that also came from an upgrade in guitar, and finding a Strat which 'breathed' better). You're right that I still draw on that experience, but I also had established my core playing style by the time I was 14, long before I started on - or even knew of - the quest for the Holy Grail. Now, as I search for different material to vary the tribute show, I'm revisiting music I used to play years ago, and it feels like I'm reconnecting with the purer musician I started out being, just with more knowledge and experience.

As I said, using an amp and old gear is really dependent on having a band (although at ShadowMania in 2007 the Seaside Shadows played after immediately us (the Foot Tappers) and Pete Korving got a superb sound using a Line 6 POD!). For a solo gig the mix in the room always sounds far more professional if you DI the guitar signal. It makes recording far easier, too.

As much as gear is simpler now, I admit I miss it dreadfully. The smell of the amp, the heat of the valves, the years of age, making tapes for the echo, cleaning the heads. Halcyon days indeed. As much as I said the audience don't care, I still care. Four years ago a couple of large, sequential life events hit me hard and I never fully recovered. The resultant financial impact meant I was unable to reunite The Shadowers as I had intended. If life had been kinder and the band was still running I would have had to prioritise the maintenance of my old gear (not that I would necessarily be using it on my smaller gigs). I have three vintage echoes in repair, including two Meazzis, and am hoping that once the virus has gone I will be able to recover financially and get my sound back (2020 was to be the year for the 'Shadowing Hank' project to take off). The aim has always been to reunite the lads. For now I'm considering taking my car off the road or selling some gear just to pay bills.

To get back on topic, though, I still plan to use the AC Tone for the tribute show, even if I am able to get my analogue echoes working. The amp just isn't necessary till I have to balance with, and hear myself over, a drum kit.

The next Lockdown Session is in the can and will be uploaded soon (can't upload them too close together!). Glad you're enjoying them!

Take care, love to Sheila...

[abstamaria]

Best of luck, Justin.

Andres