An important mixing question

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Re: An important mixing question

Postby Garystrat » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:49 pm

Hi Abel,

The problem is that in terms of monitoring you are mixing a Vox amp modeller (Tonelab) with a Jazz guitar amp, the connection you describe will only be recording the amp modeller. The Jazz amp is acting as another monitor speaker, which of course it’s not suited to because it has its own tonal characteristics and this may well be why it doesn’t sound right, but it won’t be part of the recording!

To hear the amp without the BT the normal practice would be mic’ing up the amp, the amp is stand alone and it’s the mic that connects to the mixer. However, there is a problem with this if you don’t wan’t to use headphones as you are recording the BT directly through the mixer and it would also get picked up indirectly by the mic from the PA, causing a slight delay and mismatch. In studios they would be likely to use headphones and in the larger ones possibly sound proof rooms where each could be isolated.

You need to be hearing and monitoring what is actually being recorded, which in this instance is the Tonelab. You could have this going into the amp, which is then connected to the mixer or directly to the mixer, it’s an effects pedal with either mono or stereo instrument level output. The cleanest way of doing this is as described with the Tonelab to mixer because you’re not introducing any amp characteristics which may detract from the Vox tone. I have have actually used this setup in a theatre where there wasn’t enough down time to move amps and pedals on stage, we were having to use long leads so the Tonelab went to a DI box to balance the signal then to the mixer which was all off stage.

What you are hearing from the PA is what an audience would hear if playing live using the Tonelab or something like Line 6 Helix hardware. To monitor properly for pro level recordings you would normally use flat response monitor speakers, these tend to be quite clinical and can take a little getting used to. Playback devices often have some form of colouration to optimise the hardware and enhance the sound, the idea is to do a recording that has a flat/neutral response so they sound as intended on different playback devices (I have very much simplified this so as not too over confuse you too much).

The PA may possibly introduce some characteristics and EQ of its own, but you are recording direct to the camcorder via the mixer, so none of this will be part of the actual recording. In other words anything on the output side of the mixer is not part of the recording, anything going into the mixer and settings on the mixer is!

Your mixer is fine, generally speaking it’s pretty much how they work, although you can get more complex mixers with advanced features and routing options (yours is pretty well specified anyway).

Regards

Gary
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Re: An important mixing question

Postby abel » Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:57 pm

Hi Gary,

Indeed, it's a lot of info I cannot handle here.
What I want to say is that from the Tonleab ------------> Mixer ----------> guitar amp, the guitar sound is very good and I can get it close to the Tonelab by tweaking the knobs, only that I hear also the BT through the guitar amp, and that I understand is because it's all coming from the Main Out of the mixer.
Is there a way I can get only the guitar out to the amp with my current Tonelab setting?

You are right that none of the things I hear will be recorded, and I am very happy about that, but I still would like to hear only the guitar sound through the amp. I can't stand playing with headphones on.
Robby doesn't use headphones when recording. The Tonelab is in his chain, but I have no clue how he does his recording, maybe the audio through an DAW?

Thank you much,
Abel
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Re: An important mixing question

Postby Garystrat » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:02 am

Hi Abel,

I think the only real way you can achieve that is to record from the camcorders mic rather than doing it directly, or you could mic up the amp in the chain as suggested.

I’m pretty sure you will find that Robbie does much the same as myself in using a combination of headphones/monitor speakers and is recording direct as I have described (see video below):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_E0lWrJU6A

Many of us are using computers/DAWs for not only recording, but also for general playing. I have a very nice 5 watt boutique valve amp and a good number of quality pedals, but prefer to do everything through software these days!

I use a pro level DAW (Ableton Live 10) and studio level plugins, so this is certainly not a freebie based setup!

My guitar goes to a Boss wireless system, then to the Peterson Strobe tuner and through a Focusrite Claret Pre 2 USB audio interface to the computer (Apple iMac). However, I have been involved in computing both as a hobby interest and advanced business use for around 40 years, so when it came to music I was already very comfortable with this approach.

Regards

Gary
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Re: An important mixing question

Postby abel » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:30 pm

Hi Gary,

I understand.
Too late for me to go towards sophistication.
I just want to play live and hear my guitar through the amp.

My understanding is that Robby is not using the headphones anymore lately and you are right that he is
probably using monitors or even a small amp like yours.


At least you got me here (the connections through my mixer) which is what I was looking for really, as most
of my tunes are swings boogies etc... not Shads tunes. So the best way is probably to wear headphones
when recording a Shads tune.

I am very happy to be able to have my BTs recorded in stereo and that I can easily control the balance BT /Guitar.
That was my problem.

God Bless, Thank so much,
Abel
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