That Other Sound

[Somerset]

When I see reference to “That Sound” it invariably relates to the years ’59-’63 which is, quite rightly, the period The Shadows are most famous for. But for me there is another sound, perhaps not as famous, but equally distinctive and one that I rather like.

I am referring to the early Burns period and is clearly evident on tracks such as "Santa Ana" from the “The Sound Of The Shadows” album. As the Burns was made to Hank’s specification I assume he made use of the ability to switch the neck pickup in with the bridge pickup or bridge and middle.

I have a Burns Marvin Anniversary guitar (as well as Strats), a Vox AC15C1X Custom amp and for echos I use a Blue Nebula or Strymon Volante. I also have 7 and 10 band EQ pedals and compressors if they are needed.

I know tone is in the fingers but can anyone please give an indication of how to dial in the guitar, amp and echos to get, within the limitations of my gear, a close approximation to “that other sound”?

Thank you.

[RogerCook]

It's been suggested that some of the sound came from the AC30 top boost and that Hank had the bass more or less full up and the treble set to "just bite". Often there's not much echo, just reverb added post recording. I think the neck pickup was used quite a bit too.

I learned the other day that Alan Entwistle is producing a new pickup set that is voiced for that "Dance With The Shadows" tone, to be marketed at RS54 and which will be available from Entwistle Pickups, hopefully fairly shortly.

[dave robinson]

In my experience of comparing and setting up the two sounds spoken of here, it's all possible with careful use of the controls on the guitar (whichever one) and amplifier and correct use of the echo unit. When these tunes were recorded there were no added pedals or graphic EQs, as they didn't exist to guitarists as they do today. The EQ at Abbey Road was limited but very effective and the most powerful tools I find to get close to the tone are the Hi & Low Pass Filters and Compression. Used correctly I have no problem getting the early Apache / Kon Tiki tone or the dryer 'nasal' tone of the later recordings using a Strat, Burns Marvin or even my Burns Marquee which I modified with better pickups, though the stock pickups work as they should. Also, the 'set up' of the guitar helps a lot too.
Even though I have my Meazzi Echomatic and the TVS3, I still enjoy getting my Strymon Volante to replicate that decaying echo as it wow and flutters into a musical distortion of you set it up to do that. The important part is the tone on the amp and not to try too hard by overcooking the treble. Amps vary a lot how they react to control tweaks and it's difficult to write down a set of knob positions because no two amps seem to be the same, it's a matter of using your ears, same with the knobs on the guitar, there are 'sweet spots'. I can get the early sounds on the Burns and the later sounds on a Strat - the guitars can be made to sound like ieach other.
I discovered all of this after years of insisting everything on the guitar HAD to be FLAT OUT. I unashamedly admit that I was wrong.
By listening and comparing with Hank's work I managed to get closer by listening to what the controls were doing when they were moved especially the CUT.
I recommend folks have a play around and you will eventually 'get it'.
If you have a good Vox AC-30 sound and means of adding the correct bass, treble & CUT, along with some way of replicating Hi & Lo Pass filters and a little compression ( this is where a GEQ & Compressor will help) you will find what you are looking for.

[hiffclall]

Hi Richard. Great post!. I've just bought a marvin anniversary from Dave and am really enjoying exploring the "other sound".

Just listening to Santa Ana on you tube (a first for me - never heard it before - great track!) and first thing I've noticed (which you probably know already) is that hank is on the left channel, so I found soloing that and panning it to the middle really helped me hone in on the sound.

Having only listened once, this may not be 100% accurate but I don't hear any echo on the first section of the track. In fact I don't hear much verb either. There's some room verb which I'm guessing is actually the sound of the studio rather than any artificial room verb as I don't think they had anything like that in 65. There's more bottom end to the sound (to my ears anyway) than the earlier stuff and definitely some compression.

This echoes (hah) what Roger and Dave have said.

So I would start by using a bit more bass on the amp than usual, exploring the cut on either the guitar or amp, without any echo or verb (or maybe just some room verb if you can emulate it), and then some compression. I would use quite gentle compression with a slower attack and release. I'm guessing the compression on the track came from the RS124 compressor at abbey ( and of course the compression from tape/ mastering) and they had quite slow A and R times (compared to an 1176 for example)

Are you looking to get this sound live or recording?

[Somerset]

Roger, Dave and Matthew thank you for your comments. I play with others at a monthly Shadows club but other than that I play for my own entertainment.

I have started making some of the tweaks suggested and I have noticed an immediate move in the right direction by increasing the bass and cut controls and rolling back the treble on the amp. Not there yet but certainly progress.

I have also noticed a positive change by using the neck and bridge pickups together on the Burns but importantly the selector switch must be in the “neck” position as this brings the tone control into play and I back this off to about 7.

A question for Dave (Robinson) if I may as you have met the man himself. I am curious to know, was Hank a tone chaser (like us!) trying to get a tone he had in his head or was he more of a that-sounds-ok-so-let’s-go-with-it player?

[dave robinson]

I have been fortunate on several occasions to chat with Hank a talk about these things and I'm able to say that on those recordings, he told me he used to set up what he considered a good tone to suit the melody. On his concerts he sets up what he describes as 'a ball park sound' that fits all. Those were his words when the two of us were discussing his KCP amplifier that I also bought. He couldn't understand everyone trying to emulate his recorded sound as he said the studio added quite a bit in the recording and mix-down and admitted that he rarely bothered to even try because of the complications involved, repeating that he opted for his 'ball park sound'. That's it.

[GoldenStreet]

He couldn't understand everyone trying to emulate his recorded sound as he said the studio added quite a bit in the recording and mix-down and admitted that he rarely bothered to even try because of the complications involved, repeating that he opted for his 'ball park sound'. That's it.

This seems to me the key element in the context of the exhaustive efforts of so many guitarists to capture Hank's various recorded sounds. Malcolm Addey, the engineer on all those sessions from the beginning, could no doubt reveal a few relevant facts concerning the part he played himself in producing the wonderful recordings we've enjoyed over the decades.

Bill

[JimN]

Malcolm Addey, the engineer on all those sessions from the beginning, could no doubt reveal a few relevant facts concerning the part he played himself in producing the wonderful recordings we've enjoyed over the decades.
Bill

Probably.

If he could remember it.

[hiffclall]

Does anyone know him?

[hiffclall]

OH Ignore my previous - just searched and realised that you do Jim