Acoustic stuff

[dave robinson]

I mentioned I was after getting close to Bruces rhythm guitar sound that he achieves on the recordings of Apache etc, so I bought another J200, this time the latest offering from Epiphone with a solid sitka spruce top with solid (not plywood) maple back and sides, exactly as the spec of the Gibson I once owned. I sold it for a few reasons, firstly I didn't manage to record that same sound that The Everly Brothers and Bruce got back in the day on those iconic records. I got close, but for me not close enough. Also my J200 was a natural finish and I really wanted a sunburst, but the natural ones were temporarily on offer for £1999 in 2003 at The Academy Of Sound and the rosewood ones were still £3000, so it was a compromise. Fast forward twenty years and I got the exact spec that I wanted for £789 - albeit the Epiphone variant. I can tell you with confidence that having gigged it, the guitar sounds terrific and does not disappoint. in fact, it sounds as good as my Gibson did. The guitar is equipped with Fishman Sonitone electronics so It can be plugged into an amplifier or PA. My choice of amplifier to go with it however, wasn't quite as successful, as I used to have the AER Compact 60 and this time opted for the new competitor from the same manufacturer, the Di Capo 75.
It arrived today from Peach Guitars and it took me ten minutes to realise that it didn't do what I was expecting and sounded very ordinary, whichever of my acoustic guitars I tried, be it Martin, Gibson, Gretsch the Epihone J200, Vintage Gordon Giltrap, none of them pleased me as much as when plugged through my Dynacord desk into our PA. I guess I'm spoiled.
So it arrived at 12.15 and was packed and labelled for return and at the FedEx pick up point by 2pm.
I'm going to try some mic techniques to try and nail this sound of Bruce's. My guess is there were multiple microphones involved along with some Hi & Low Pass filters and Parametric EQs galore with compressors & limiters and I intend to find them and use them on my recordings. I know I'm always meddling and trying stuff but what else do you do to keep out of trouble ? Watch this space.

[GoldenStreet]

Good luck, Dave, in your quest! The acoustic sound Bruce achieved, particularly in the 1960-61 sessions, was something else, Theme from Shane being, for me, a standout example. If you are able to reproduce that, it's mission accomplished!

Bill

[dave robinson]

I would be delighted to get anywhere near the rhythm sound on 'Shane', it's something I need to focus on.
I do have a plan in place that involves my friends helping me by moving microphones around the guitar whilst I am playing it with a pair headphones on, so I can hear the subtleties in tone and the pick noise on the strings. There's a lovely percussiveness to the sound that is also apparent on those recordings of the Everly Brothers round the same time and the opinion of several friends with whom I discussed this topic is that several microphones were likely deployed on the J-200 and mixed to their optimum.
Getting back to my rejection of the Da Capo acoustic amp, I have done a bit of research and ordered the Boss Acoustic Pro to try out. Looking forward to tomorrow when it lands.

[Didier]

In his book, Bruce Welch wrote that he was unhappy with the sound he had in the studio, this is why he borrowed Cliff's J200, which he used for the first time on Apache. He was so happy with the result that he kept borrowing it for following recordings.

Didier

[roger bayliss]

I saw a video of Bruce recently and he was discussing his rhythm work whilst playing the Red strat and he explained that he nearly always played accoustic on rhythm parts during recording sessions.

He pointed out his plectrum was quite thin , bending it with his fingers easily . He said he needed that to play the really fast rhythm parts effectively. Of course using a lighter nylon pick will make the guitar thinner sounding overall and that must be a starting point for getting his sound.

I would estimate the thickness to be no more than 0.7mm most likely around 0.5 - 0.6mm flexible nylon , but Bruce did not say.

[dave robinson]

These days there are thousands of different picks/plectra from which to choose and I too like those really soft Jim Dunlop nylon flexible ones about 40mm for rhythm, but back in the day they didn't exist and all the plectrums that were on offer were very hard and usually fairly thick. I'm thinking the Bert Weedon angular shaped ones in tortoiseshell and plastic, later copied somewhat be the signature Hank B Marvin efforts from Vox that were similar shaped but slightly longer and with more rounded points.
The only really thin ones I remember back then were Gibson branded but came in various thicknesses in black, with the Gibson name in gold across the middle. I remember buying some and they split very easily with our heavy strings.

[RogerCook]

I think the picks you might mean Roger Bayliss were the ones he used in "The Shadows at 60" which I think we're Fender Mojogrip.

https://www.fender.com/en-GB/accessorie ... 51403.html

[dave robinson]

I've got some of those Fender Mojo Grips that I use with my Jim Dunlop .60m picks. They help me because my fingers suffer from numbness since the chemotherapy and it can be difficult to hold the pick as I would like. Definitely recommended for us older guys.

[abstamaria]

That is an observation that had not occurred to me. I always assumed that Bruce used thin picks from 1960 on. It did not occur to me that those might not have been available in England in the early years, except perhaps for the Gibsons mentioned above.

Someone should ask Bruce, although he likely won’t remember.

Andy

[GoldenStreet]

With reference to the Everlys, I think the story is correct that, initially, before their acquisition of the customised black, dual pickguard J200s, they used for recording purposes Southern Jumbos (effectively a more upmarket version of the J45) provided for them by their father, Ike.

Bill