Single coil pickups- noise reduction?

[cockroach]

Please excuse my ignorance of electrical stuff, but I would be interested in opinions on this idea..

I was wondering whether hum from single coil pickups could be reduced by somehow including a 'dummy' coil into the circuit? It would need to be in the circuit regardless of whether individual pickups are selected or a combination of pickups. The idea being that the dummy coil would be wired out of phase or magnetically opposite(?) the pickup coils and thus cancel hum like a two coil humbucking pickup, but not affect the tone of the pickup as it would have no magnet and would not pick up string vibration.

I know that many recent Strat and Tele type guitars are wired such that whenever any two pickups are switched on together, the combined setting is humbucking. However, the buzz and hum returns when a single pickup is selected.

Also I've seen some past guitars (such as the Alembic guitars and basses) with active circuits where a dummy coil was wired into the circuit and hidden under a scratchplate, and this device suppressed hum and noise when any single pickup or combination of pickups is used.

Have I missed something here, or is this already commonly used? Or is the only way to quiet down a single coil pickup by way of various 'noiseless' designs (how do they work?) or by using regular humbucking designs (including stacked double coil types etc)?

Thanks folks!

[JimN]

I was wondering whether hum from single coil pickups could be reduced by somehow including a 'dummy' coil into the circuit? It would need to be in the circuit regardless of whether individual pickups are selected or a combination of pickups. The idea being that the dummy coil would be wired out of phase or magnetically opposite(?) the pickup coils and thus cancel hum like a two coil humbucking pickup, but not affect the tone of the pickup as it would have no magnet and would not pick up string vibration.

This is certainly possible and has been done in the past - notably by the Californian makers of Alembic guitars. How successful that was is debatable. I mean, although Alembic are known to the in-group of guitar geeks (mainly for their basses, it has to be said), are their guitars at all well-known or successful with the general player?
I'm not sure how practical it is to have the dummy coil located too far away from the strings. The way in which a humbucking pickup works is by having (as nearly as is physically possible) the same signal from two different sources, 180° out of phase. That (to me) suggests that the dummy coil has to sense the strings, but apparently not:

http://www.frettech.com/dummy/index.html

Mind you... have you seen an Alembic guitar? I mean, I know that there is a market for these "organic" designs, but give me a Strat, a Jazzmaster, a Les Paul, an ES-175, an ES-335 or a J-200 any day...

JN

[SteveG]

Why not give it a try and report back? Pulling the magnets out of a cheap copy pickup would probably do the trick.

[geoff1711]

But there are so many brilliant noiseless single coil type pickups to choose from, Kinman, Fender, Duncan, EMG, Entwhistle, some from Brandoni and others you can find on Ebay.

Some are designed to push the front end of your amp harder whereas some are designed to sound like vintage single coils.

Do they sound like single coil pickups? well I think they do, maybe a warmer bottom end? but then again there are so many different sounding single coils as well.

How do they do it? one coil is stacked above the other generally, so that the top coil senses the string, the lower coil is polarity reversed and probably does still pick up string vibration but much quieter than the top coil and the beefier frequencies hence a slightly warmer tone, but the hum cancellation is equal in strength so no hum.

There are single coil size humbuckers but as the coils are side by side they sound more like PAF's

What is probable is that if you wire a dummy coil into positions 1 3 & 5 on your guitar, not needed for 2 & 4 and will induce hum, your existing pickups will probably sound different, due to the increase in capacitance.

All of my single coil guitars have noiseless except my latest Burns, because I don't think anybody makes noiseless Trisonics, but being encased in an earthed full metal jacket makes them fairly hum free in any case.

Geoff

[dave robinson]

There was a Strat by Fender about five years ago with the dummy coil fitted under the pickguard for this purpose. Our rhythm guitarist Malc had one and didn't like it so he sold it on.

[cockroach]

Thank you all for your quick responses.

JimN

No, I didn't say I wanted an Alembic, just that I knew they used dummy coils. Mind you, I have quite a soft spot for those old 'handcrafted' looking hippy instruments...made from natural materials by hand , maaan!

Geoff

Hardly justifiable or worth spending about $AUS300-450 on a set of Chris Kinman's or Fender noiseless pickups, when me guitars are only worth about 100 bucks each!

Steve

I'm not good with wires and soldering irons!

Dave Robbo,

Your'e probably right- it would probably sound crap anyway...


Forget it, I like the single coil sound- I'll just put up with the buzzes...after all, our heroes all put up with it - in fact EVERY electric guitar player did until humbuckers were invented..and many players still kept playing single coils and still do..!

Thanks chaps, you've saved me time, injury and money!!

[dave robinson]

I have been trying to remember the model of that Strat but it escapes me and it speaks volumes that it is no longer produced. I tried it myself as Malc offered me first refusal, but it lacked the character of a single coil Strat. The nearest sound to the single coils I have found are on my USA Deluxe which has Vintage Noiseless fitted. They are a little brighter sounding and I cure this by backing off the volume to about 8 & turning the tone controls down to just below 5, as all pickups are contrlable on this model.

[Simon Underwood]

I'm fairly sure that the Strat with the dummy coil for noise sensing was the Elite Strat, issued in the early eighties at the same time that they made a pig's ear of the Standard Strat, when they moved the jack socket onto the scratchplate, and fitted both models with the disastrous Freeflyte tremolo..

Simon

[dave robinson]

I'm fairly sure that the Strat with the dummy coil for noise sensing was the Elite Strat, issued in the early eighties at the same time that they made a pig's ear of the Standard Strat, when they moved the jack socket onto the scratchplate, and fitted both models with the disastrous Freeflyte tremolo..

Simon

That isn't the one, the Strat I'm speaking of was a recent 'Powerhouse Strat' from around 2002.

[cockroach]

Well, if even Fender couldn't get it right, I won't bother undoing all them screws to try it meself...