New Echo Unit

[dobroman]

Hi All,

For those of you that are not members of "Charlie Hall and Friends" or those that are not aware, Charlie Hall has teamed up with John Collins (JCvintage) and for the past year have been developing a new effects unit. Those of you that use EFTP patches will know how good they are. Although this unit is still a few months away (and no price has been decided), and no demos are available yet, the unit made an appearance at a "get-together" and was extremely well received, so much so, that numbers of interested people are being collated on Charlie's forum.

Obviously, having got the "sounds" (which is being compared with the Meazzi echo unit), the next most important thing is the price, and Charlie has promised that the price will not be "mega mega bucks".

Full details as described by Charlie are -

About a year ago I teamed up with JCvintage (John Collins) to develop a totally new digital echo pedal with an analogue preamp, powered by a separate AC adaptor. The dry signal is analogue from beginning to end, and only the echo signal is processed digitally.
The dry signal has the same frequency response and harmonic generation of the Meazzi Echomatic 2 regardless of the echo patch selected, even when the effect is switched off, so that the favourite benchmark dry tone is preserved at all times, making it easier to set amp controls and other tone settings.
The input impedance is the same as a Meazzi Echomatic 2 at 470Kohms, and the output impedance is low enough to retain a good quality signal when a long output signal cable is used.
Patches will be pre-programmed during manufacture so they can never be lost, and are selected by an up footswitch or a down footswitch. A third footswitch turns the echo effect off or on, with an LED light indicating when the echo effect is on.
An LCD display shows details of the selected patch. Fast cycling from one patch to another is possible by holding either footswitch down. At power up, the unit recalls the last selected patch.
Five rotary controls can be adjusted at any time by the user, even when the unit is not powered up if so desired. These controls are for dry level, echo drive level, echo output level, feedback, and wow and flutter. Setting all the controls to a single suggested setting will give the basic intended sound from each program patch so it is possible to use the unit and never have to touch the controls other than to ensure that they are set as required to begin with. Control settings to tailor the sound in real time to suit the player, the guitar, and the acoustics of the hall or room will affect all patches continually as the controls are never over-ridden by patch settings. The controls provide sufficient user adjustment to customise the sound in much the same way as the original echo units being replicated.
The preamp is all solid state but with the triode characteristics of valves such as the ECC83/12AX7 and replicates all of the effects of the earthed or grounded cathode valve circuits and cathode follower output circuits used in Meazzi echo units. Tests show practically identical results to the equivalent valve circuits, with soft clipping, generation of lower order harmonics that increase in the correct varying proportions with increasing signal levels, bias shifting due to capacitor coupling, and output resistance characteristics (the equivalent of anode or plate resistance). The typical triode curves published by the valve manufacturers are produced by these solid state circuits under the equivalent test conditions.
With no valves to wear out, the worry of a replacement valve altering the intended sound is eliminated. The circuit runs at much lower voltages, simplifying the power supply design, and at far lower cost.
John is developing the programming code for the echoes with much input from me. We are still writing program patches and beginning to make arrangements for manufacture.
Details include accurate overall recording and playback frequency responses, accurate simulation of the effects of mismatched/misaligned playback heads detected in Hank's Echomatic 2, an analogue drive circuit with accurate magnetic oxide overload characteristics that take into account varying levels of distortion according to frequency response, accurate feedback characteristics, and accurate wow characteristics calculated from measurements of the mechanical parts of a real Echomatic 2. We found that the mass of the drum in a drum echo unit could not have tape flutter in the same way as the flexible thin tape of a tape unit. The sum of the wow components accurately reproduce all of the required Echomatic 2 pitch variations as far as “that sound” is concerned. Because the pitch variation components are programmed into the patches, the wow (and flutter where applicable) will be set correctly for any echo unit programmed.
Other patches are for the Meazzi Echomatic 1 and while some of these were demonstrated at the Get Together, more programming work is required to fine tune and perfect them all. Yet to be programmed are the Roland RE301, Vox Long Tom, and others. All the echoes will be in mono, just as vintage echo units always were.
We hope to have the unit in production in the next few months. The selling price is not yet known.
The prototype is not the final intended case design, so pics are not being shown until the case design has been fixed.

Read more: http://charliehall.proboards.com/index. ... z1OwpvZWZD

and added info from John Collins -

About a year ago I teamed up with JCvintage (John Collins) to develop a totally new digital echo pedal with an analogue preamp, powered by a separate AC adaptor. The dry signal is analogue from beginning to end, and only the echo signal is processed digitally.
The dry signal has the same frequency response and harmonic generation of the Meazzi Echomatic 2 regardless of the echo patch selected, even when the effect is switched off, so that the favourite benchmark dry tone is preserved at all times, making it easier to set amp controls and other tone settings.
The input impedance is the same as a Meazzi Echomatic 2 at 470Kohms, and the output impedance is low enough to retain a good quality signal when a long output signal cable is used.
Patches will be pre-programmed during manufacture so they can never be lost, and are selected by an up footswitch or a down footswitch. A third footswitch turns the echo effect off or on, with an LED light indicating when the echo effect is on.
An LCD display shows details of the selected patch. Fast cycling from one patch to another is possible by holding either footswitch down. At power up, the unit recalls the last selected patch.
Five rotary controls can be adjusted at any time by the user, even when the unit is not powered up if so desired. These controls are for dry level, echo drive level, echo output level, feedback, and wow and flutter. Setting all the controls to a single suggested setting will give the basic intended sound from each program patch so it is possible to use the unit and never have to touch the controls other than to ensure that they are set as required to begin with. Control settings to tailor the sound in real time to suit the player, the guitar, and the acoustics of the hall or room will affect all patches continually as the controls are never over-ridden by patch settings. The controls provide sufficient user adjustment to customise the sound in much the same way as the original echo units being replicated.
The preamp is all solid state but with the triode characteristics of valves such as the ECC83/12AX7 and replicates all of the effects of the earthed or grounded cathode valve circuits and cathode follower output circuits used in Meazzi echo units. Tests show practically identical results to the equivalent valve circuits, with soft clipping, generation of lower order harmonics that increase in the correct varying proportions with increasing signal levels, bias shifting due to capacitor coupling, and output resistance characteristics (the equivalent of anode or plate resistance). The typical triode curves published by the valve manufacturers are produced by these solid state circuits under the equivalent test conditions.
With no valves to wear out, the worry of a replacement valve altering the intended sound is eliminated. The circuit runs at much lower voltages, simplifying the power supply design, and at far lower cost.
John is developing the programming code for the echoes with much input from me. We are still writing program patches and beginning to make arrangements for manufacture.
Details include accurate overall recording and playback frequency responses, accurate simulation of the effects of mismatched/misaligned playback heads detected in Hank's Echomatic 2, an analogue drive circuit with accurate magnetic oxide overload characteristics that take into account varying levels of distortion according to frequency response, accurate feedback characteristics, and accurate wow characteristics calculated from measurements of the mechanical parts of a real Echomatic 2. We found that the mass of the drum in a drum echo unit could not have tape flutter in the same way as the flexible thin tape of a tape unit. The sum of the wow components accurately reproduce all of the required Echomatic 2 pitch variations as far as “that sound” is concerned. Because the pitch variation components are programmed into the patches, the wow (and flutter where applicable) will be set correctly for any echo unit programmed.
Other patches are for the Meazzi Echomatic 1 and while some of these were demonstrated at the Get Together, more programming work is required to fine tune and perfect them all. Yet to be programmed are the Roland RE301, Vox Long Tom, and others. All the echoes will be in mono, just as vintage echo units always were.
We hope to have the unit in production in the next few months. The selling price is not yet known.
The prototype is not the final intended case design, so pics are not being shown until the case design has been fixed.


Read more: http://charliehall.proboards.com/index. ... z1OwpvZWZD

Hope this may be of interest.

Regards

Brian

[Bojan]

Brian mistakenly posted Charlie's text twice. Actually, this is the added info from John Collins:

"This might be a good opportunity for me to chime in, to help shine some light onto the development of the new (yet to be named) echo unit that Charlie demonstrated at the recent Get Together. Charlie has provided quite a lot of technical detail on the unit, so I will focus more on the background and development process that lead to that.
By way of introduction, my own background (and career) is electronics, and music has been a lifelong hobby and passion. Recently I started a guitar pickup business, (JCvintage) and some of you may recognise me through that. About 15 months ago, not long after joining this site, I started to experiment with Digital Signal Processing – to learn about DSP techniques and to see if were possible to get close to the echo sound of the old units. I was also encouraged by some of the other echo projects that members of this site had been working on. After some initial success with my designs, I contacted Charlie. Unknown to me at the time, Charlie had been working on some analogue circuit designs of his own – particularly circuits that replicate the characteristics of triode tubes, as he has described in his post. These designs are quite original, and unique, and it’s these designs of Charlie’s that are used in the analogue interfaces of the new echo unit. I also learned that Charlie had been thinking about a hardware platform to complement these designs, and a DSP component for the echoes that was built from the “ground up”, ideally allowing every characteristics of the echoes from the old machines to be produced, and controlled. So it seemed like a good idea to join forces. Charlie’s Analogue circuits, my Digital designs and Programming, and Charlie’s ear to get everything sounding right. We didn’t want to announce the project, until we were quite sure we had something worthwhile.
All on this site will know Charlie’s attention to detail in all he does. There is more than a year’s development in this prototype-so far (it’s not finished yet). I can attest to the fact that Charlie has left no stone unturned in his desire to get things right. I can’t tell you how many sound samples, ideas, circuits etc have gone back and forth, and I believe we have developed some unique programming solutions in the digital code, particularly with the various EQ curves, Feedback characteristics and Wow and Flutter, all of which are implemented in the digital domain. It’s been a lot of work, but I’ve appreciated the opportunity to be involved with this."

Read more: http://charliehall.proboards.com/index. ... z1OxA17Y9R

Cheers, Bojan

[barryg]

This is just what we've all been waiting for and if it lives up to expectations it will be a winner and an answer to all our dreams without having to go to the expense of finding that elusive Meazzi echo box.

Well done guys, I look forward to trying one of these units in the near future.

Barry

[barryg]

I'm surprised at the lack of response and interest in this unit. It's certainly a different matter on Charlie Hall's site.

Barry

[dave robinson]

This has been on the cards for some time and I won't excited until after I have heard it personally, but I wish Charlie every success with it.
I'm presently using my Tonelab on stage, which equals anything I've had before of it's kind, though at the moment we are experimenting with the Mac computer and Logic 9 and it's echos',which are to die for and do give the desired Meazzi sound, so forgive me for not going overboard, for me it may be too late coming, we'll see.

[Amanda]

Hi All,

This echo is the proverbial Mutts Nuts, alongside a Meazzi Echomatic and my AC15 copy most listeners
found it impossible to tell the difference between the two.
Charlie is definitely on to a winner this time. It will be slightly bigger than a Magicstomp and won't break the bank!


Amanda

[barryg]

Dave,

Yes, I would like to hear it and try it and if it's as good as everyone is saying it will revolutionise the Shadow and instrumental guitarist performance and all in a single stomp box. I hope it lives up to expectations and can be delivered at an acceptable price.

Amanda,

You've heard the demo version of this echo unit and you say it's up to Meazzi standard so I think it's got a fair chance of it being as good as you and everyone else is saying.

Barry

[dave robinson]

Dave,

Yes, I would like to hear it and try it and if it's as good as everyone is saying it will revolutionise the Shadow and instrumental guitarist performance and all in a single stomp box. I hope it lives up to expectations and can be delivered at an acceptable price.

Amanda,

You've heard the demo version of this echo unit and you say it's up to Meazzi standard so I think it's got a fair chance of it being as good as you and everyone else is saying.

Barry

I hope so too Barry.

[emielvisser48]

I'm surprised at the lack of response and interest in this unit. It's certainly a different matter on Charlie Hall's site.

Barry

Hi Barry,
I'm not, something from the past........

Regards,
Emiel

[PeterV]

Hi All,

This echo is the proverbial Mutts Nuts, alongside a Meazzi Echomatic and my AC15 copy most listeners
found it impossible to tell the difference between the two.
Charlie is definitely on to a winner this time. It will be slightly bigger than a Magicstomp and won't break the bank!


Amanda

Amanda,

When we get older a problem with our hearing becomes bigger and bigger (presbyacusis). If you would compare your curve when you were much younger the gear used provided much more content to you then now. As you're a lady your audio curve slightly differs from the male population. A statement on quality of sound is just your own and cannot be used as a vote for this type of products as your perception quality is not known so it can not be a reference! Remember the 'target audience' is also moving away from 'perfect hearing '



Piet