New Echo Unit

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Re: New Echo Unit

Postby Risky » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:47 pm

Abbeyroadie wrote:
Who out there has not got or had an EFTP unit based on Charlie's work not many....


... a bit of an exaggeration :shock: There are very few EFTP units at the Staffordshire Hankies. I've can recall a Q2 and a Q20 (same owner) along with a couple of RFX2000s. The rest are a motely collection of ordinary delay pedals, or in my case, a Q2 without EFTP.

I could never justify the enormous cost of an EFTP unit (laws of diminishing returns!). A Q2/Q20 with EFTP is more expensive than all my guitars, bar the Burns 40th.

Having said that, I would like to own a Charlie Hall designed delay unit. I just hope that this new one is sold at a reasonable price.
(ex-guitar player) - now a ukulele and ukulele bass player!
Update: After 10 years absence, now a born-again Hankie
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Re: New Echo Unit

Postby Geoff Alderton LH » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:25 pm

Hi all
I think Roger, post 31, hits the nail on the head. Anyone into The Shadows sound who refers to 'That Sound' is referring to the Shadows early recorded sound, i.e. the sound we all listen to on the 45's EP's LP's and CD's. Not the Shadows live sound. I myself had never heard the Shadows playing a live gig and producing 'That Sound' during the show until Charlie Hall got involved with his EFTP and I think this was a Hank Marvin gig and not a Shadows gig. Since these early days of EFTP lots of pro musician's have achieved 'That Sound' via various bits of kit, Hank, Phil Kelly, Dave Robinson, Collin P Jones to name four.
All these guitarists listen to their sound with the ears and hearing they now possess. When we go to a gig with one of the above guitarists playing live we expect to hear 'That Sound' 99.9% of the time we get 'That Sound' and all the 'That Sound' anoraks, I include myself, at that gigs agree that we did hear 'That Sound'
I think if Charlie produces another echo, and I have no reason to think he can’t, that gives us wannabes the sound that the above guitarists produce, with their very expensive bits of kit, at a reasonable price then I say three cheers to Charlie Hall.
Regards Geoff.
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Re: New Echo Unit

Postby Didier » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:28 am

Geoff Alderton LH wrote:Hi all
Anyone into The Shadows sound who refers to 'That Sound' is referring to the Shadows early recorded sound, i.e. the sound we all listen to on the 45's EP's LP's and CD's. Not the Shadows live sound. I myself had never heard the Shadows playing a live gig and producing 'That Sound'

I can't completly agree. I attended a Shadows' concert at the Paris Olympia in 1961, and they certainly had "That sound" at this time.
I feel the same when listening to the "Kingston" live CD (recorded in 1962).
It wasn't the case anymore when I went to a second Shadows' concert in 1964, "that sound" was gone.

Since these early days of EFTP lots of pro musician's have achieved 'That Sound' via various bits of kit, Hank, Phil Kelly, Dave Robinson, Collin P Jones to name four.

Hank never had "that sound" again since the early years, and didn't try to.

There are also a few amateur players who achieved "that sound", including on the wrong side of the Channel...

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Re: New Echo Unit

Postby Abbeyroadie » Fri Jun 17, 2011 9:48 am

Followers of this thread.....
When you post as in my case a personal opinion that I believe to be true on an open forum like this you never quite know what replies you might get and of course that's the whole point to seek others points of view and further the disscussion providing of course that it's done in a fair, polite and meaningful way.
That said some replies still surprise me...

PeterV.....if you are still here, I made no direct reference to you nor did I "point my finger" at you. I hope you have not left the community .
As a general rule however I imagine that if a member cannot accept other's reasonable viewpoints them maybe their days are numbered as a member anyway.

Phil "Risky"....Other than the fact that you believe I was exaggerating and that there are few EFTP units in your Staffordshire club I don't quite understand the logic behind the comment, maybe you could tell me in a future message or not depending on if you feel that it is important enough.

You quoted only the first part of my words in that paragraph "Who out there has not got or had an EFTP unit based on Charlie's work not many...."
Leaving out and making no reference to the most important part , the very essence of that paragraph that followed.

I of course cannot possibly know how many EFTP units there are in your particular club or anywhere else for that matter although I do have actual sales figures for a 10 year period which tend to suggest you might have under estimated the number overall of EFTP units out there beyond the UK let alone Staffs .
Anyway you have addmitted to few at least which literally is not everyone but then I never said that. So if you just want to prove that I exaggerated as far as your club goes then fine, not a problem I accept that.

You said: "I could never justify the enormous cost of an EFTP unit (laws of diminishing returns!). A Q2/Q20 with EFTP is more expensive than all my guitars, bar the Burns 40th."
You can buy if you so desire an EFTP programmed Zoom unit on ebay right now starting at around £69- I don't imagine you use a guitar that costs less.

Your last few words say it all...."Having said that, I would like to own a Charlie Hall designed delay unit"
No further comment required.....

Since you quote Fred Trueman ....One for the cricket fans:
Sometimes on these boards I see comments that are as crazy as an umpire giving LBW whilst standing at square leg. :roll:

Have a nice day
PA





" a bit of an exaggeration There are very few EFTP units at the Staffordshire Hankies. I've can recall a Q2 and a Q20 (same owner) along with a couple of RFX2000s. The rest are a motely collection of ordinary delay pedals, or in my case, a Q2 without EFTP.
I could never justify the enormous cost of an EFTP unit (laws of diminishing returns!). A Q2/Q20 with EFTP is more expensive than all my guitars, bar the Burns 40th.
Having said that, I would like to own a Charlie Hall designed delay unit. I just hope that this new one is sold at a reasonable price."
We didn't have metaphors in my day. We didn't beat about the bush. (Fred Trueman)
Risky
Location: Staffordshire
Full Real Name: Phil Wolstenholme
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Re: New Echo Unit

Postby Risky » Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:40 pm

Abbeyroadie wrote:Phil "Risky"....Other than the fact that you believe I was exaggerating and that there are few EFTP units in your Staffordshire club I don't quite understand the logic behind the comment, maybe you could tell me in a future message or not depending on if you feel that it is important enough.

You quoted only the first part of my words in that paragraph "Who out there has not got or had an EFTP unit based on Charlie's work not many...."
Leaving out and making no reference to the most important part , the very essence of that paragraph that followed.

I of course cannot possibly know how many EFTP units there are in your particular club or anywhere else for that matter although I do have actual sales figures for a 10 year period which tend to suggest you might have under estimated the number overall of EFTP units out there beyond the UK let alone Staffs .
Anyway you have addmitted to few at least which literally is not everyone but then I never said that. So if you just want to prove that I exaggerated as far as your club goes then fine, not a problem I accept that.

You said: "I could never justify the enormous cost of an EFTP unit (laws of diminishing returns!). A Q2/Q20 with EFTP is more expensive than all my guitars, bar the Burns 40th."
You can buy if you so desire an EFTP programmed Zoom unit on ebay right now starting at around £69- I don't imagine you use a guitar that costs less.


Peter

I'm sorry that you found my comments illogical. Perhaps I should spell my message out in a different way...

Last Tuesday there were 15 players at our club. None of them were using an EFTP unit. The reason for this is clearly the cost of an EFTP unit. It isn't much of an argument to say that you have seen a Zoom recently for around £69. When first released EFTP units cost around £800 and second-hand Q2/Q20s have held their value quite well since. RFX2000s with EFTP also cost several hundred pounds and even second-hand units are still expensive on eBay. Here's some examples from today's eBay:

Zoom 508 (£199) (ridiculous!)
Quadraverb+ (£199)
RFX2000 (£155)
Magicstomp (£245)
Zoom G7 (£199)
Q2 (£475)

... and these are all second-hand !!! The common factor is, of course, Charlie's name is attached to them all and this is keeping the price up.

My message was clear I believe. Make the price of the new unit reasonable and many more players would rush to buy one. If not then a brand new Boss Delay pedal at around £80 will seem to be much better value for money.
(ex-guitar player) - now a ukulele and ukulele bass player!
Update: After 10 years absence, now a born-again Hankie
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Re: New Echo Unit

Postby AlanMcKillop » Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:42 pm

The reason for this is clearly the cost of an EFTP unit.


Come off it, you aren't serious are you? Your eBay prices are at the high end of the scale and if you take the time and watch some EFTP units, you'll get them much cheaper than for the prices you quote. Two Magicstomps recently advertised on this site with EFTP, were listed at £125 (2 of) and £150. If you consider the eBay prices to be high, then I don't think you'll be buying the new unit either, but many of us will. :thumbup:
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Re: New Echo Unit

Postby noelford » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:23 pm

I bought both my Quad GTs, each with it's own legal EFTP, for around £160 each. I really don't think that, compared with the cost of the rest of our gear, the price of EFTP kit is a very big factor.

And as far as making the price low enough and selling to more players, I think it's pretty impressive that the unit is still only at the prototype stage and already has a waiting list of over 100 players.
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Re: New Echo Unit

Postby Mark Burton » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:31 pm

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Re: New Echo Unit

Postby noelford » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:54 pm

Sorry, but that's really not helpful or relevant now. That sample is the early one which is not at all representative of the unit at its current stage of development. As I understand it, a new set of sample sound-files is on the way soon. If taking stock is in order, bear in mind the large number of players at Northwich who could not tell the difference between the current model and the Meazzi.
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Re: New Echo Unit

Postby dave robinson » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:58 pm

Mark Burton wrote:Can I suggest we pause - take stock and listen ......

http://charliehall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=music&action=display&thread=8544


I had a listen when it was first posted Mark, we have a problem if that is the sound folks believe to be IT.
I trust Charlie will eventually perfect the device.
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