New Echo Unit

[PeterV]

I'm surprised at the lack of response and interest in this unit. It's certainly a different matter on Charlie Hall's site.

Barry

Barry,

There are many more products capable of providing excellent emulations of the vintage equipment. To get valve characteristics, mostly discussed on Charlie's site, are nothing special as players are already using a pre-amp with a 12AX7 to get the special triode features injected. Creating triodes using solid state devices is cumbersum as the spread in characteristics varies per device so each triode build requires exact tuning. For mass production this could become a nightmare. I've wrote a while back on this forum about the cost build-up designing/developing/producing an echo unit based om similar components being very difficult from a commercial point of view.

Piet

[noelford]

When we get older a problem with our hearing becomes bigger and bigger (presbyacusis). If you would compare your curve when you were much younger the gear used provided much more content to you then now. As you're a lady your audio curve slightly differs from the male population. A statement on quality of sound is just your own and cannot be used as a vote for this type of products as your perception quality is not known so it can not be a reference! Remember the 'target audience' is also moving away from 'perfect hearing '

Piet

Forgive me, but I find that rather patronising. And, on that basis, Piet, presumably we shouldn't bother at all about the quality of our sound, because everyone else's perception will be different from our own. Interestingly, those of us who were there, each with our individual hearing levels, and heard Charlie's unit, were unanimous in our enthusiasm for his achievement, even at this development stage, and the only somewhat negative comments on this forum have come from people who weren't there and who haven't heard it. And, incidentally, those of us who were there were able to hear it directly in comparison to the Meazzi, so any hearing dysfunction would apply equally to both and, therefore, not be a factor.

[PeterV]

It's just factual data from a guy with an engineering background, and some knowledge in this specialistic field, and nothing else attached.If the hearing test was done with more units a possible ranking could reveal if the statements given are correct and not masked by this limited test only or are you saying that this new unit is way better then the existing emulation/patches including the Charlie's patches?

It seems that a normal discussion based on facts is not allowed anymore? I guess that the responses here are more down to earth and acceptable to a wider audience.

I have high regards for Charlie and I know he has to take extreme high hurdles to transfer his product to the production phase.

Piet

[noelford]

Piet, I don't dispute the facts at all - in fact I was already well aware of them. However, my objection was to the way you implied that Amanda's opinion must be disregarded in view of those facts. I'm sure you didn't intend it to come out that way but, nevertheless, that's how it appeared to come across to me. I would never try to tell anyone what they can or cannot discuss on this forum, but I do think it is a little negative for anyone who has not had first hand experience of the unit in question to dispute (with or without 'facts') the opinion of someone who has. Can't we just be happy that, on the evidence of a lot of people with that first-hand experience, a cracking new piece of kit is on the horizon?!

Cheers

Noel

[PeterV]

Noel,

When the Shads became popular the sensitivity of our ears in the high area was dB's better then it's now. In your listening experience now you could not hear like then. Your hearing is now just a subset of your hearings in 1960. It's therefore not valid to tag this with a comment towards a perfect 'fit' since 'your microfoon' is too much aged. It should be a person with the age of that era that could make a sensible remark assuming we use our ears as 'microfoons'.Most of us are with this defect hence my scribblings on the subject.

Cheers

Piet
p.s. Audio hearing curves vs age are on the Internet supporting my statements.

[noelford]

Piet, like I said, I don't dispute the facts and was simply concerned about the way your post seemed to be saying Amanda's opinion wasn't valid. With regard to those facts, I think they would make for a very interesting discussion on a separate topic of their own, especially since so much discussion on this forum centres upon the strong desire of many members, young and old, to achieve 'that sound'.

Cheers

Noel

[Bojan]

It turns out that "THAT SOUND" has aged together with all of us young/old ones !! So, I guess everything is OK after all and half of what we think we hear, we don't hear at all, we only remember hearing it . . . What? Has anyone noticed that I'm writing in a large font? That's so you can hear me better!!

[neil2726]

Amanda is 100% correct. Ive heard this echo unit and its just fabulous. Every one at Northwich was raving over it!!!!!!!!

[barryg]

Now the discussion has started and this thread has had some response.

Barry,

There are many more products capable of providing excellent emulations of the vintage equipment. To get valve characteristics, mostly discussed on Charlie's site, are nothing special as players are already using a pre-amp with a 12AX7 to get the special triode features injected. Creating triodes using solid state devices is cumbersum as the spread in characteristics varies per device so each triode build requires exact tuning. For mass production this could become a nightmare. I've wrote a while back on this forum about the cost build-up designing/developing/producing an echo unit based om similar components being very difficult from a commercial point of view.

Piet[/quote][/quote]

Piet,

I'm aware there are different things on the market that members use to try and find that elusive sound and echo and some people have a whole chain of devices between their guitar and amp linked together in their search for it. And then there are the computer programme elements that do similar things. What Charlies box promises is to deliver the sound and echoes for the type of music we play and it will all be in one box, a plug and play device that's easy to use.
As previously said, Charlies prototype echo box was heard by several members of Charlie Hall's site at a recent meeting where a side by side comparison to a Meazzi echo box was demonstrated.

Charlie and his team seem to have overcome the technical problems and come up with the goods. We will have to wait and see if this box goes into production and will be for sale but at this time things are looking good.

Regarding your mention of our hearing ability I would say that as we have the original recordings of the Shadows to listen to we can all make our own decisions about what we hear on the record and compare it to what we want to achieve by emulating the music. Everyone will hear something different and can make their own decision on how they interpret that and this new echo box promises to make that easier for us all.

Thanks for your technical input on this Piet but it's a bit above my level of knowledge on the subject but it's good to hear it from your side.

Barry

[barryg]

It looks like my "quote" didn't quite work out in the above message but I'm sure you'll sort it out.

Barry