Flatwounds....

[Bojan]

I think I have some extra Pyramids lying around somewhere, although they are not 12s but rather 10.5, which is the gauge for my Rickenbacker 340/6 . . . I will definitely let you know about the difference in sound, or better yet, I wll post some sound clips.

Cheers,
Bojan

[fenderplucker]

Hi,

I have just come back from Hank's studio where Gary and I have been helping him get his gear sorted for his guest spot with Cliff this Saturday and we asked about flat wound strings. He was quite sure that the 34346 Strat came fitted with round wound strings, probably 13's, and that he hasn't used flat wound stings on any of his Strats. He also commented that it was not unusual to have well used strings on his guitar at a recording session, but would normally have new ones on for concerts, mainly to avoid breakages.

Paul.

[Bojan]

Well, so much for flatwound strings for Shadows music!! Thanks Paul

Bojan

[AlanMcKillop]

There are references by Hank, that in the early days, he used to remove the strings and boil them in water to remove the dirt. He could only do that with round wound, flat wounds would unwind. Flat wounds have never done it for me sound wise, they're for jazz guitarists.

[MeBHank]

Hi,

I have just come back from Hank's studio where Gary and I have been helping him get his gear sorted for his guest spot with Cliff this Saturday and we asked about flat wound strings. He was quite sure that the 34346 Strat came fitted with round wound strings, probably 13's, and that he hasn't used flat wound stings on any of his Strats. He also commented that it was not unusual to have well used strings on his guitar at a recording session, but would normally have new ones on for concerts, mainly to avoid breakages.

Paul.

Thanks for that, Paul. It confirms some suspicions I've had for years.

(I wonder if the number of string breakages at Shadows clubs will go up now? )

[ecca]

Haven't there been pictures that clearly show tapewound strings ?
( Not 'flatwound'....... not in England )

[abstamaria]

I am a big fan of Hank and really look up to him. And think the same of Paul and Gary, too. I wonder though how reliable memory is 53 years on. (I know how mine is relative to things that happened in 1960, and at 64 I'm younger than Hank.) Against Hank’s recollection, data seem to make it reasonable to conclude that Fender fitted only flatwounds (tapewounds) to the early Stratocasters, that in fact Fender proclaimed the guitar was designed for them. that roundwounds weren’t available in 1959 in the US and then only under one small brand, that it was unlikely Fender wouldn’t have fitted them right away, and that accordingly Cliff’s directly imported Strat would have been fitted with flatwounds. Then there is at least that photograph someone blew up that seemed to show flatwound strings.

Roundwounds might have been available in the UK earlier; I don’t know that for sure, although at least one member here has said the new Strat he then bought in Europe (France?) had flatwounds. If the Strat did come with flatwounds, perhaps Hank swapped the strings immediately. But this seems unlikely as he was in awe of the Strat its strings, and at the time tended to hang on to old strings.

I suppose we will never know for sure. Paul, be brave and tell Hank, “Hank, you know, your Strat most likely came with flatwounds,” and see how he reacts.

In the meantime, Paul, Gary, please try either Thomastik Infeld (I suggest the George Benson set) or Pyramid flatwounds and tell me what you think. They are the old-style flatwounds. (I have no interest in either company, unfortunately.) I for one would be very interested in what you think.

I am not on a crusade pro flatwounds; I have been happy with my D'Addario 12-52 roundwounds. It's just that the evidence keeps piling up and telling me "he must have used flatwounds on Apache." Oh well, it is good we have these arcane issues to keep us occupied and happy. May we never know for sure.

Best to all,

Andy

[anniv 63]

Well for impoverished buskers , boiling their roundwound strings to remove gunk makes sense.
At the same time they can cook their spagetti in the same pan!!!
Todays tip from Mrs Moneypenny.

Mike

[roger bayliss]

Some manufacturers of roundwounds also roll the strings to reduce string noise and that would flatten them somewhat and maybe it is possible they have flattened them on some brands more than others... just a thought in this topic.

I would say if 34346 did arrive with flats by the time they came to record Apache they would have changed them ... I mean surely they would have some money around for that with Cliff buying guitars like Gibsons and Strats .. Some roundwounds die off quickly as well and I tried the Gibson L5s (similar to sonomatics HBM reputed to use) and after 6 weeks they were flat as a pancake soundwise. My guess is they went into recordings with old strings on as Paul states HBM did say he had and if they used a brand like Sonomatics they would be nowhere near bright sounding after a few weeks of playing. If HBM says he used roundwound he used roundwound !

[JimN]

Some manufacturers of roundwounds also roll the strings to reduce string noise and that would flatten them somewhat and maybe it is possible they have flattened them on some brands more than others... just a thought in this topic.

That technique used to be known as "groundwound". The first I ever encountered were Guild strings, circa 1969. I don't suppose Guild made their own strings, though.

I would say if 34346 did arrive with flats by the time they came to record Apache they would have changed them ... I mean surely they would have some money around for that with Cliff buying guitars like Gibsons and Strats .. Some roundwounds die off quickly as well and I tried the Gibson L5s (similar to sonomatics HBM reputed to use) and after 6 weeks they were flat as a pancake soundwise. My guess is they went into recordings with old strings on as Paul states HBM did say he had and if they used a brand like Sonomatics they would be nowhere near bright sounding after a few weeks of playing. If HBM says he used roundwound he used roundwound !

The written order (if followed according to Cliff's instruction) also included a spare set of Fender "balanced strings", and it is vanishingly unlikely that Hank was still using the factory-installed strings from delivery of the guitar through to the recording of Apache more than a year later. Only Brian Brockie does that.

Modern Gibson "L5" strings are poor in quality - they vary in response across a single set and go dead very quickly (unfortunately, not all at the same speed).

I can accept that Hank was more prone to using older strings in the early 1960s. But he'd started restringing more frequently in the second half of the decade (presumably, partly because of a sponsorship deal for strings). Just listen to that deep, resonant sound from those strings on Friends (instrumental version) or The Magical Mrs Clamps.