Flatwounds....

[cockroach]

It does occur to me that it's best if you can afford it and have the time to swap sets around , to use the most appropriate type of strings for whatever style of music you are playing, or use a number of guitars (two or more) with different strings if you play a few different styles. Hank explained this on the Final Tour DVD- heavy gauge for the old stuff, lighter gauge for the newer stuff, using two pretty similar Strats.

Of course, using one basic 'one type suits all' gauge and/or type is what most folks tend to do. If you play gigs regularly also, it's often difficult to find less common brands, gauges and/or types (rounds vs flats) everywhere, even allowing for today's internet purchases with quick delivery. I went to a Tommy Emmanuel clinic once, and he said as far as he was concerned, for electric guitar he used ACME (i.e. ANY brand) strings of about 10-46...

Let's face it, without strings, there's no sound and no music at all- they're reasonably important after all!

[abstamaria]

I am beginning to feel like how Roberto Pistolesi must have felt after Bruce said “It wasn’t a Gretsch, I was there …”

But I was curious and had a bit of free time. I wanted to know when Fender switched the Stratocaster to roundwounds. If it was likely that Fender was still using flatwounds in 1959, then Cliff's brand new Stratocaster must have been fitted with them and, at least for a while, Hank must have used flatwounds.

Here is what I found.

In the U.S. at least, according to this link on Stevie Ray Vaughan, “[e]arly on in rock history, flatwounds were all there were.”

http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/I ... art_1.aspx

Here is a 1955 Stratocaster with flatwounds. “This pristine vintage 1955 Fender Stratocaster is for sale. All original, it has been stored under a bed since 1961, and still has flatwound strings on it from this period.” I am not sure whether the reference is to the date of manufacture (1955) or storage (1961).

http://stratforsale.com/the_guitar/phps ... rentPic=14

And here is a 1957 with "original" flatwounds. “We proudly offer up for sale a truly classic and iconic guitar – a beautiful, NEAR MINT condition, 100% original 1957 Fender Stratocaster in two-tone Sunburst finish. This stunning guitar comes with its original case – also in amazing condition – as well as the original bridge cover, tremolo bar, case key, and even the original flatwound strings that came on the guitar from Fender in 1957!”

http://www.musiccitypickers.com/1957-fe ... inal-sold/

Jerry Allison, talking about Buddy Holly’s strings in 1958, noted: “Flatwounds or acoustics, that’s all there was.”

http://www.buddyhollyandthecrickets.com/equipment.html

Here’s a 1958 Stratocaster “still equipped with its “original Fender flatwound strings” (US$29.995, by the way).

http://www.maverick-music.com/fender-gu ... r-hardtail

Remember when Bob Dylan played at the Newport Folk Festival in 1965, using an electric guitar for the first time and shocking his fans? He sang “Like a Rolling Stone” and used this Stratocaster. Interestingly, the article says “Regarding Mr. Babiuk, the guitar appraiser known as an expert on Beatles gear and other 1960s instruments, confirmed the guitar is a Fender Stratocaster built in May 1964, with its original flat-wound strings, …” I would love to be able to speak with Mr. Babiuk.

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/ ... an-guitar/

Naturally, the same discussion entertains Beatles fans. Did they use flatwounds early on? The Rickenbacker fellows seem to be settled on flatwounds.

It would be interesting to chase this down a bit more, and perhaps more information will turn up. I wonder what strings were available in the UK then, and whether, quite opposite to the suituation in the U.S., roundwounds were the norm in England.

Best,

Andy

[cockroach]

I remember that in the '60's here in Australia, the brand new Hofner Club 40 I bought had flats, as did the Italian built Elite electric...which would suggest that such original equipped electric guitars from the factory had flats fitted.

My dear old pal Keith Bateman and I went to London in late 1962 and at one shop with the salesman's permission, we grabbed a brand new fiesta red Strat and a new Bass VI from the glass display cabinets to admire and touch and try to play them....the Strat had flats, and of course the BASS VI had them too.

Mr Fender apparently didn't like light gauge strings and refused to fit them , according to Ernie Ball's son, based on his knowledge of OEM strings from his father's guitar shop (EB made up some of first retail custom gauge light sets for LA players back then). Flats were made for noiseless fast professional standard level performance for live, recording and TV work on electric guitars back then..

[Patrice]

I would add my contribution through some original US Fender catalogues I own:
If you take a look inside the 58/59 Fender catalogue you can discover the strings specially desing for "spanish guitars":
There were only three sets availaible:
Two sets called "Mastersound Flatwound" : the # 60 "gold label" (gold plated) and the #50 "silver label" and (on an other hand) one (only) set, referenced : "Pure Nickel Wrap" # 10...
All of these sets with a G wound but with no precision about the gauge.
Now if you take a look inside the 1960 catalogue you can find the same three sets. (No change)
In the 1961 catalogue, we can always find the same type of sets but now with TWO different gauges for the "Flatwound Silver label" : Always the # 50 set and a "new" one numbered: 505 "Light Gauge"...
Then, we can find the always same choice inside the 63/64 catalogue.
The "first" strings set called by Fender :"Round Wound" appears in the 1965-1966 catalogue...
It's called : "Smooth Round Wound" and the gauge is 13-52. At this time the gauge for the Master Flatwound set is 13-54, the "light gauge" Flatwound (discribe above) : 12-50

Two remarks and I would say that I 'm totally agreed with "abstamaria" :
My english is too bad to understand EXACTLY what "wrap" means ?
But certainly not the same as : "Round Wound" (?)
Because in these catalogues we can also read:
1) The "Flatwound types" are discribed by Fender as : "precision wrapped assuring a controlled diameter for absolute evenness of tone and a perfectly smooth surface for the most confortable fingering" The special metal alloys used in these strings are far superior .../...!"
2) And the "Pure Nickel Wrap Strings" are described as :" They possess extremely fine magnetic properties, and are wrapped with pure nickel to give the strings .../..."
But nowhere, in these catalogues (before the 65/66 one) you can read that these "Wrap" Pure Nickel Strings are "Round Wound"... So:

If it was not possible to buy a "Round Wound" string set from Fender in 58/59 (no more than in 60,61,62,63 and 64...) it's an evidence that the #34346 arrived, mid 59 in England from the factory, with "Flatwound strings".(May be "Pure Nickel Flatwound" but ..."Flatwound" ?!)
Besides if you take a look to this video on Youtube :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTN9NuSj43s
We can see Cliff singing "Living Doll" with his #34346 Strat in his hands.
In the "The Complete Chronicle" book (page 20) we can read that "Cliff's fifth single Living Doll enters the charts in July 1959, the 10th. So :
1) I think (and hope you think like me ?!) that the Youtube video is after this date.
May be August or September.
2) As we can see, during this clip, the #34346" is brand NEW and if you take a look to the strings, around 1'15, it's an evidence (for me...) that the strings fitted on this Strat (at this time !) are Fender "Flatwound"...

Then after that:
Remember that Saturday Dance was recorded by The Shadows (and Hank with this 34346) the August 25th 1959.
And Lonesome Fella in September the 13th of the same year.
So, if it's an "evidence" to say that Hank used (rapidly ?) Round Wound Strings (what company ?) on this maple neck Strat, he is certainly wrong when he says that he NEVER played this 34346 fitted with "Flatwound Strings" (?!)
But ?!!!!

At least....
If you take a look to this video of Duane Eddy (certainly turned in 60) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd1ss52UIEg
As soon as the beginning of the video, we can see a set of Flatwound strings fitted on his 6120 Gretsch.
For "Mister Twang" it appears today "curious" that he used Flatwound Strings and not Round Wound on his guitar...
But was he able to buy a set like this in 60 ? Knowing that Duane Eddy is americain and lives in america at this time !

Best regards from France
Patrice

(And excuse my english mistakes... I don't practice enough !)

[ecca]

I was there like most other old farts in the early sixties and all we had was tapewound strings. ( I will NOT call them flatwound )
If my rusty old memory serves me well the advent of roundwound coincided with the introduction of light gauge strings and the practice of 'downstringing' to get a bit of 'bend' .


P.S. Patrice, your English is excellent.

[Bluesnote]

Well I gave the flatwounds(Thomastic) a months trial on my Strat(10s) and Tele(12s) and although initially I liked the change in sound, I found them a bit on the dull side for my liking in the long run. Great to play as in fingers sliding up and down the neck with ease but I really missed the ring and sustain you get with normal Gibson strings, plus being able to bend and use vibrato much better. I can understand some of you guys wanting that vintage sound but I guess I've become used to the modern sound now and dont want to go back the way. I first changed the Tele with a view to keeping them on the Strat but after playing the Tele with the Gibsons, I soon did the Strat as well.
We're never happy with our sound are we? Well not me anyway
Hugh.

[fenderplucker]

Hi Guys,

A fascinating bit of forensics on what was available (in the USA, at least)!!

This suggests that round wound strings were not available from Fender before about 1965. However, if we listen to the early recordings there is are some obvious string squeaks that most probably came from the use of round wound strings.

For example, there are some very obvious round wound string squeaks on the lead in Blue Star, most noticeable at about 90.5 Sec. That tune was recorded at the same session as Frightened City so it would appear that Hank was using round wound strings by then (Feb 1961). Were there any earlier squeaks? There seems to also be one in Theme for Giant (Oct 1960) just before Hank goes into the high damped note section for the second time. There is a noise in Theme from Shane (Aug 1960), but it is much the same as on Back Home where Hank clearly switches pickups after the main theme and the guitar tone changes (and Charlie Hall agrees with this diagnoses). I don’t think I can detect any squeaks on any earlier tunes.

Nevertheless, I think that the evidence shows that Hank was using round wound strings at least as early as Feb 1961 (and possibly Oct 1960) and almost certainly for all tunes after that. As to what happened before then is anybody's guess.

Paul.

[cockroach]

It is surely more than likely that Hank changed strings sometime on the first Strat when the original equipment set wore out, lost tuning stability or broke.
Apparently Cliff ordered a couple of spare sets with the guitar, but how long they lasted before being changed is pretty hard to discern over 50 years later!
This is 'cold case' forensic detection with a vengeance!

So what was available conveniently in London for him to procure for replacements back then? (about 1960 onwards)

UK Cathedral strings (flat or round wound and big heavy bxstards!) or maybe, Hofner/Selmer sets, Burns (who also did the black plastic coated strings for guitar and bass- made for Burns by James How , later Rotosound, Strings?), etc or possibly USA Black Diamond (flat and round, big heavy bxstards again..)sets?

Roundwounds were always cheaper than flats or tapewounds (yes, I recall calling 'em that too back then...OK ecca!)

If Bruce couldn't recall actually using the Telecaster - until someone showed him the video clip from TV, we should forgive Hank if his memory erred when answering the question...

[ecca]

Perhaps it was a case of being available if you knew where to look , but not for us peasants.
The same applies to the Meazzi , I never even knew how he got the echoes ( although I bloody scratched my head often enough !) until Charlie cracked it and it all came out.
That was 40 years later.
God save the Queen.

P.S. I fitted the tapewounds to my L5 - crap.
Dull dull dull.

[RayL]

For a UK perspective from the early 60s, here's a couple of string packs from my collection. The first pic is of the plastic wallets from Burns Artist strings and Vox Phantom strings.

Vox + Burns strings.jpg

(40.09 KiB) Downloaded 7637 times

This second shows the contents of the Vox pack. The strings are indeed roundwound (and it says so in big red lettering on the back insert). The front insert pic is of Cliff with the Bruce/Tony/Jet/Hank Shadows.

Vox strings.jpg

(49.47 KiB) Downloaded 7637 times

Now the Vox Phantom guitar first came out in 1962 so these would have been part of the matching accessories and the picture probably dates this pack to that year.

The Burns wallet is all I can find at the moment though a trawl through the cellar might reveal more (it's too cold down there at present). Unlike the Vox pack (which I was given a few years ago), the Burns wallet with its strings was bought in 1963 for the guitar which is my avatar. The Burns price list (which I've shown you before) shows these strings as flatwound but my memory says that I found flats very dull and fitted rounds (maybe Monopole).

burns prices 63.JPG

(38.72 KiB) Downloaded 7637 times

Ray