Miking up your drums

[roninnes]

When I play gigs I do a full miking up of my kit through a mixer and feed out to the main desk. It really does help to balance the sound.
Recently my Behringer mixer packed in and the cost of repair, if possible, was prohibitive.
So I took the advice of my friendly music shop owner who is a wiz at fixing things except Behringer, and bought an Alto mixer, same features as the previous mixer but much lighter, smaller and the effects are by Alesis.
Having used it the other weekend for the first time in anger I was more than impressed. Certainly at £99.00 it is amazing value for money.
Question what do other drummers do re miking up and what if any mixer do you use.

Ron

[Paul Creasey]

Hi Ron,

Hope you and Ange are well.
As for miking up my Drums, well - in short - I don't! These days, if we play a "largish" (in our terms) venue, I might pop a mike into the Bass Drum to give it a bit more "Thump", but on the whole, I just don't bother.
I try to apply the tip given to me at Scarborough a year-or-so- ago by Martin Verrill..............."Just hit 'em harder!".
To my mind (and this is why I've never gone "Electronic"), anything that distances me from all those "Techies" whose only topic of conversation is "Pups", ECL80's, Mixers, and echoes, HAS to be a good thing.
Anyroadup.............mikes and a mixer COST too much!

Regards
Paul

[Iain Purdon]

Having recently done a gig with Ron in a large Scarborough venue I can say that his drum sound was terrific through the PA once we got it right. It was well worth the soundcheck time and if that was £99 it was a darn good investment.

Otherwise I can testify to Martin's recipe also!!

Iain

[Paul Creasey]

Thanks for that Ian,
I have no doubts at all about Ron's sound, and am sure that everything you've said is absolutely spot-on.
However, I DO believe that, whether we're talking Drums, Guitars, or (even) Basses - it's the person bashing the skins/plucking the strings that makes the REAL difference!
In my experience (as a Shadows fan since 1959) the only player that sounds like Hank Marvin (or Bruce Welch, or John Rostill, or Brian Bennett etc etc) is Hank Marvin (or...........etc etc), despite all the electronic wizardry that tries to persuade the gullible otherwise.
Regards
Paul.
P.S. I guess I should duck back down behind the parapet now!

[Iain Purdon]

Not at all Paul! Your comments are valid and true. I don't sound like John Rostill!

In my main band (rock'n'roll not pure Shads) we don't mike up the drums. We play clubs mainly and do a sound check beforehand to make sure we are all audible to a suitable degree. As it happens our drummer is also a singer and his vocal mike picks up a bit of his snare and cymbals.

It would be interesting to hear what other drummers think.

Iain

[roninnes]

No ducking required Paul, everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinion, at least on the drums and drummers section.
As I am not a heavy hitter I tend to need the assistance of mikes to bring my sound up but not to outdo the guitars (as if).
I truly believe we all have our own styles and nobody can replace or sound like The Shadows who have given so much enjoyment over the years. The best we can hope for is to pay tribute to them the best way we can.

Ange and I are both well thank you and I trust all in Life Story are well also. Please give them our regards.

Ron

[RayL]

The vital word was in the second sentence of Ron's first message - the word 'balance'.

If you are going to play Nivram in a big hall then you can't simply hit harder with the brushes - they don't work like that. And however hard you kick with your foot on the bass-drum pedal the amount of low-frequency vibration that you can produce compared to the space to be filled will be very limited.

So if you want to preserve the dynamics, ie the balance, of an acoustic drum kit in a large space (right up to outdoors, the ultimate in large spaces) then you need to mic up. With all respect to Martin V., simply hitting harder is not the answer. You could play Nivram with sticks or even with carpenters mallets but it really wouldn't be the same.

For drummers who need to go through the PA for some gigs but don't want all the faffing around with clipping mics on drums or in drums and worrying about feedback and having even more hardware clutter, there is another alternative. Have each drum fitted with a transducer and a permanently-mounted jack socket. The transducers drive the type of drum module that is used with electronic drums. Make up 'kits' in the module that match the styles you use. Then at the gig, you will be playing an acoustic kit but what the audience will hear is 'augmented' by the drum module to give the right balance in that bigger space.

Ray

[martcaster]

An interesting thread, this, and to echo Paul's sentiments, a refreshing change from talk

of PUPs, tap delays etc. I feel I must clarify what is, perhaps, a mis-understanding of

my approach to mic-ing drums. I well remember saying to Paul..." just'it 'em 'arder!" as

I've often done at venues where drum mikes were not an option (unavailable/venue not big

enough/whatever) But where mikes are available AND the size of the venue is suitable AND

you have a sound guy who knows what he's doing and not just twiddling for the sake of it,

then, and only then, go with the mikes. Ray is quite correct in his take on the dynamics

of the thing (NEVER attempt to play Nivram with 7lb hammers at the NEC!!) Our practice

venue is always littered with drumstick shards and I despair....does nobody ever tell

these kids?! I believe the drummer's place is at the back providing augmentation for the

rhythm player with the ride/hi-hat, emphasis as well empathy for the bass player's lines

and a solid time for the lead (they WILL rush things, don't you find?) If we know

anything at all, on this site, it's that 'That Sound' comprises of clean,well articulated

lead lines, powerful, driving rhythms (or delicate arpeggios where necessary), solid,

emphatic bass lines and a driving drum part which is in total sympathy with all of the

aforementioned. Get these right, and talk of volume/balance should be secondary. Most of

the venues which most of us play in, most of the time do not require mic-ing up and

"balance" can be achieved by sitting in the middle at the back. (You'll know when the

drummer's balanced correctly...he dribbles out of both sides of his mouth equally)
Of course, all of this talk can be rendered redundant by the use of electronic

drums with a half decent interchangeable 'library' or a system which uses the likes of

Addictive Drums of BFD2. Do the mixing at home, then stand at the bar and wait for the

bass player to get his hand in his pocket. See you all at Frimley.
Mart.

[roninnes]

Absolutely correct Martin, keeping the beat, driving from behind and acting as a support for the front line.
I remember lending a young drummer a pair of sticks who had forgotten his at a practice venue. At the end he tried to return them to me, but one look and it was "you keep them" they were utterly ruined.

Ron

[Iain Purdon]

A definition to remember...

'That Sound' comprises of clean,well articulated lead lines, powerful, driving rhythms (or delicate arpeggios where necessary), solid, emphatic bass lines and a driving drum part which is in total sympathy with all of the aforementioned.

...and so say all of us. Well said, Martin.

Iain