The Old Sound

[Gary Allen]

Is this drummer a member here ?

[abstamaria]

Im beginning to think that cymbals are a subjective thing and that we all hear them differently ... regards Gary

My cousin’s father bought him a brand new Premier drum set in about 1962. It had just a single mounted tom, a floor tom, snare, bass drum, the hi-hats, and a single cymbal, but that was the complete kit then. I played “Raggy Tramline” on it in 1963 or so at a party in my grandma’s house. It was white metalflake, and boy did I want it then.

When I began to play again some 12 years ago, I bought that drum kit from my cousin. Unfortunately, it was in bad shape. The metalflake veneer on the shells had begun to peel off, among other issues. I gave it to our drummer Eddie, who set about restoring it. Unfortunately, he passed away without being able to play it.

The sole cymbal surprised me when the first time I hit it after I received the set from my cousin. It sounded terrible! When I spoke with another drummer from the 60s who had played that set, his unsolicited comment was that the cymbal had a terrible, clangy sound. I wouldn't want to reproduce it.

I wonder how well we remain equipped to judge cymbals now. We are less able to hear high frequencies, and exposure to loud 60s music couldn’t have helped at all. Eddie became hard of hearing, and Lito – an excellent drummer from the 60s too – is deaf in one ear. Must be the high frequencies from the cymbals. If you fast-forward to 2.40 in the YouTube video below, you will see Lito hitting the Zildjian for “Atlantis.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5UnP8mG1sY

Andy

[abstamaria]

The ruffled edge of the lower tophat cymbal is obvious here.

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[roninnes]

Regarding cymbals I agree with Gary that the style of cymbals being produced today has a very different sound to those of the 60's and 70's, just look at all the major manufacturers websites to see the miriad of composites which in turn give different sounds, however my Sabian Pro Sonix were bought from eBay for a lot less than new and after a good clean have served me well. I have recently acquired 2 Zildjian cymbals again not new and I am very pleased with the sound. It really is finding a cymbal that suits your ear and your needs. A good drum shop should have a selection of cymbals which you can hear to establish what is right for you
Ron

[abstamaria]

We speak of cymbals these days, but in the early days, the drummer would probably have had only ONE cymbal. I didn't know the difference between ride and crash until I started to play again, not too long ago.

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Not having any money at all, I used to draw drum sets in class, all with that single cymbal.

Andy

[abstamaria]

About 12 years ago, I bought a drum set from my cousin Cesar, who had a rock band in the early 60s. His dad bought it for him new in 1960. When he was done playing, my cousin kept it in his attic, where it stayed for decades. I had hopes of resurrecting it, but it was too far gone. I played “Raggy Tramline” on that set in my grandmother’s house in 1963.

Andy

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[roninnes]

Many cymbals in the early days were Crash/Ride so only one was necessary, also it kept costs to a minimum.
I have an old Zildjian ride cymbal which has that dry sound and very different to anything you will buy today as new.
Always worth a look on ebay as there a lot of cymbals for sale.
Ron

[RogerCook]

Is this drummer a member here ?

Chris Wright of Drumwright

http://www.drumwright.co.uk/

[abstamaria]

Thanks, Jim. I’ve been trying to understand and learn drums myself. (Our drummer was taken by Covid last year.)

So much research has gone into pickups, strings, and guitar-related things, but much less on the drums the Shadows used in the early years.

I assume then that the 1960s pieces, like Apache and Man of Mystery, featured that relatively inexpensive Ajax drum set? I wonder what cymbals?

Regards,

Andy

PS: after I wrote the above, I’ve been back-reading. There is so much information here, including from Jim. Fascinating stuff.

[dave robinson]

Many years ago I read an article i a music magazine by Tony Meehan about beginners and choices of kit to buy.
He stated that as soon as he could, he bought the best cymbals and hi-hats possible, they were at that time Avedis Zildjian as that firm was a family affair concerning brothers that eventually split to form Sabian. Paste didn't exist until later. The only serious competition were the Super Zyn cymbals that didn't have the same sound quality.
Tony stated that it didn't matter too much about the make of the actual drums, because they can be tuned, but cymbals can't and are all important. He said that good cymbals and budget drums would almost certainly sound superior to an expensive kit coupled with cheap cymbals. I took that advice when I bought my first drums for my studio, buying old Zildjian cymbals and hi hats that I still have today. I discussed this with Brian Bennett when I was working with The Vibratos and he reinforced what Tony said. He also told me the model of ride cymbal he has used exclusively throughout his career which is a hallmark sound of Shads records, it's a 20/22" Zildjian Ping Ride, Very dry sounding and great to use instead of tapping away on the hi hats. I saw Brain's Zildjian Ping ride, it was a 20" on the kit he used at Shadowmania, but at that time I had already purchased a Sabian 22" Ping ride that sounds very similar, perhaps a smidge deeper and Brian approved. Brian asked my opinion on about three different ride cymbals that he was considering using at Shadowmania and I mentioned that Lakeside is a massive room and very dead sounding, so he chose his most lively ride cymbal that he knew would carry in that type of room.
I have always had a great interest in 'background' sounds and in the early sixties I used to listen to all the new record releases coming out on a Friday and some groups just seemed to have a lifeless rhythm section sound as opposed to The Shadows who always had a 'vibrancy' to their rhythm section - courtesy of quality cymbals as it turns out, but I didn't know that at that time. We used to discuss it amongst the group members and it took a while to work out why The Shadows had this 'superior' backing sound. Of course the J-200 and Jet's bass were massive too, but had Tony used cheap cymbals, it would certainly have been far less impressive. The stuff I still learn on a daily basis is all related to sound and recording and it amazes me that there's more to learn every day if you care to search.