Some Jet Questions

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Re: Some Jet Questions

Postby cockroach » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:30 am

JimN wrote:On the video referenced below (Mumblin' Mosie), a unique combination of Fenders is seen:

Bruce - blonde R/N Telecaster
Jet - red Precision Bass with his initials attached
Hank - 34346.

It was cited on the Cliff Richard Official Youtube channel a few weeks ago. It was apparently recorded on 23 March 1961, and it also features the fawn AC30/4s with the TV front design.




Thanks Jim! I hadn't seen that clip before!

And that's dear old Bruce using the famous Telecaster from the first LP and EP covers...which he said was only a photographer's prop for the photo shoot and which he said he never actually used! ;) :D
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Re: Some Jet Questions

Postby anniv 63 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:44 am

Not sure who has the official copyright to these ATV Cliff Richard shows(including these new found
clips from 23/3/1961) but surely there must be a market and saleability for an official release.
There is probably a legion of Cliff fans , now mostly in their 70s, who probably have never seen these
either at original broadcast, or are totally unaware of their existence via you tube or bootlegged copy.
Time marches on for all of us , so opportunities need to be now!!!!
Pretty certain other site members/ visitors have similar views.

Mike

ps some of these clips did appear on an official video Cliff Richard The Hit List some 20 years plus a go,
so it can be done!!!
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Re: Some Jet Questions

Postby cockroach » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:48 pm

anniv 63 wrote:Not sure who has the official copyright to these ATV Cliff Richard shows(including these new found
clips from 23/3/1961) but surely there must be a market and saleability for an official release.
There is probably a legion of Cliff fans , now mostly in their 70s, who probably have never seen these
either at original broadcast, or are totally unaware of their existence via you tube or bootlegged copy.
Time marches on for all of us , so opportunities need to be now!!!!
Pretty certain other site members/ visitors have similar views.

Mike

ps some of these clips did appear on an official video Cliff Richard The Hit List some 20 years plus a go,
so it can be done!!!


Yes! I've got the hit list video- which I enjoy very much, even though there's not a lot of purely Shadows instrumental stuff, being mainly Cliff's vocals...and that clip posted of Mumbling Mosie would have slotted nicely into the hit list compilation!

Fascinating to watch all the different guitars and amps they used in that early period and to hear the boys doing their stuff behind Cliff...
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Re: Some Jet Questions

Postby MMStingray54 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:55 pm

cockroach wrote:
JimN wrote:On the video referenced below (Mumblin' Mosie), a unique combination of Fenders is seen:

Bruce - blonde R/N Telecaster
Jet - red Precision Bass with his initials attached
Hank - 34346.

It was cited on the Cliff Richard Official Youtube channel a few weeks ago. It was apparently recorded on 23 March 1961, and it also features the fawn AC30/4s with the TV front design.




Thanks Jim! I hadn't seen that clip before!

And that's dear old Bruce using the famous Telecaster from the first LP and EP covers...which he said was only a photographer's prop for the photo shoot and which he said he never actually used! ;) :D


I'm guessing that's the ATV studio theatre at Aston, Birmingham - location also of Thank Your Lucky Stars?

That's a very interesting clip for lots of other reasons - bizarre female dancing, interesting cross handed drum technique and most bizarre of all, an entire song which sounds loosely based on a Bo Diddley beat, a bit like Wille and the Hand Jive - but rather than the latter's subject matter....devoted to moaning about stammering.... different times I guess - I recall the term 'steaming nit' being one of the most appalling and violent insults available, whilst as children we would refer to people we didn't like as a certain type of disabled person - political correctness certainly does have its good points.

Back to instruments - what happened to 34346 after the appearance of the rosewood FR strats?
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Re: Some Jet Questions

Postby JimN » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:18 am

Mumblin' Mosie was written and first performed by American singer Johnny Otis, who also wrote and recorded the original versions of Willie and The Hand Jive and Willie Did The Cha Cha. All three songs were covered by Cliff Richard and The Shadows. Otis Performed as "The Johnny Otis Show".

Like you, Don, I have never been comfortable with the lyric of Mumblin' Mosie. The stereo version also features an extraordinary mix.

I'm sure that the 1960 and 1961 ATV Cliff Richard Shows would have been staged and taped at the main ATV London facility at Elstree (which now belongs to the BBC and is the home of "Eastenders"). The same would be true of the several spectaculars they made (for ATV) in 1965 and the single half-hour programme entitled "The Shadows" that the group made for ATV in 1962.

34346 after 1961? It was returned to Cliff, who had it resprayed in white (probably a couple of years later when The Shadows were using white Fenders). Bruce once told me that the guitar was subject to a fair bit of accidental cosmetic damage while being used by Hank and at that time (when the concept of a vintage guitar had not been created), a respray would have been a natural reaction to the damage and wear.

Around 1971/72, 34346 was loaned to John Farrar when Cliff was touring the Far East and MWF were part of the show. In 1976, Cliff was so grateful to Bruce for producing the LP "I'm Nearly Famous" that he offered him the gift (though some say loan) of that very guitar. Bruce used it, still in white, throughout the Shadows reformation (1977 onward). He had it resprayed in a red finish in about 1983. The guitar was still white when The Shadows appeared on "The Little And Large Show" that year (performing Shadoogie and Willie and The Hand Jive) but had been refinished in red by the time of the autumn tour. I saw them at the Dominion in Tottenham Court Road. Hank was playing the 1958 Strat he had obtained from Patrice Bastien in Paris, Bruce was playing the (now red) 34346 and Alan Jones was playing a new FR 1957 Squier vintage reissue Precision Bass. Each guitar was a slightly different colour...
Last edited by JimN on Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some Jet Questions

Postby cockroach » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:14 am

MMStingray54 wrote:That's a very interesting clip for lots of other reasons - bizarre female dancing, interesting cross handed drum technique and most bizarre of all, an entire song which sounds loosely based on a Bo Diddley beat, a bit like Wille and the Hand Jive - but rather than the latter's subject matter....devoted to moaning about stammering.... different times I guess - I recall the term 'steaming nit' being one of the most appalling and violent insults available, whilst as children we would refer to people we didn't like as a certain type of disabled person - political correctness certainly does have its good points.



I just looked up the song Mumblin' Mosie and read the lyrics..certainly would be considered offensive these days...however..

Have you heard or read the 'lyric's of most rap and hip hop 'songs'?
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Re: Some Jet Questions

Postby MMStingray54 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:14 pm

Indeed (re rap and hip hop) - some would say it's really just a reflection of elements of real US society, which is not shown generally - angry people ranting with profanity I guess - however I love R and B grooves so like some some of those associated with hip hop. Even the apparently most inoccuous of pop songs has 'interesting' connotations these days eg Solo by Clean Bandit - there is what's described as an 'explicit' version.

Jim, thanks for that history of 34346 - it's certainly earned its crust then!! I also think the attitude to refinishing is unsurprising - I've read an interview where Hank referred to having red guitars resprayed white in the early 60s - I'm sure a make do and mend attitude, as with everything else back then, probably applied and these were, after all, just tools of the trade. At the start, 34346 was seemingly quite a celebrity initially - and one would have thought a revered instrument - that fiesta red or any other pastel guitars probably reflected an out of date era by the late 60s and the fiesta red (pink) may have given off other connotations at that time - possibly would have contributed!! Interesting about the cosmetic damage - many guitars used by famous rock artists are similarly quite or even extremely battered - just wear and tear of the job and extensive use I guess.

Interesting also the different shades - I'm guessing the colour under the finish may contribute? Fiesta red is also notoriously 'colour shifting' - my Stingray ranges in colour from pale pink through red to orange dependent on lighting (even natural daylight) - also probably affected by the exact colour mix and aging of the finish.
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Re: Some Jet Questions

Postby cockroach » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:15 pm

Don,

I joined a group in 1970, with some friends from another band who we met when they gigged with my first group, which had just broken up..the guitar player had just returned to Australia from a working holiday in the UK, and the last thing he did before leaving Britain, was to grab a cheap secondhand Strat from a shop in London for 80 guineas!

It was a beaten up Fiesta Red 1962 model, and it was a great guitar which he and I both used in the new group (we shared guitar and bass playing!)...under the deep scratches in the Fiesta Red paint it seemed to have at least two other previous colours, white and what looked like sunburst.

He later decided to get it refinished, so our drummer took it to his work place and got it resprayed black! :shock: He later sold it for AUS$450 (about 250 pounds UK back then)..

They were just guitars back then...good guitars , but still just guitars..
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Re: Some Jet Questions

Postby Iain Purdon » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:40 pm

cockroach wrote:They were just guitars back then...good guitars , but still just guitars..


Exactly. And they still are ;)
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Re: Some Jet Questions

Postby MMStingray54 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 12:09 am

Iain Purdon wrote:
cockroach wrote:They were just guitars back then...good guitars , but still just guitars..


Exactly. And they still are ;)


Well yes they are, but there are those of us who enthuse over the history and also have great regard for these things!!

John, that's an interesting story about the Strat - what is really curious is the number of potential reasons for the over painting:-

1) The factory appears regularly (if not always) to have painted custom colours on bodies with pre existing colours - colours like candy apple red quite often have a further coat of silver to get the red shade right. The colour under the top coat seems to affect the final shade of the top coat. Presumably the original body colour was sunburst - or maybe a substandard sunburst body.
2) I have read that Jennings had Strats repainted fiesta red (did they call them flamingo pink??) as many people wanted that colour after Hank Marvin started to use them. Was there a similar urge to emulate Jet Harris - I have certainly read that many famous British bass players of the late 60s were very influenced by Jet - perhaps the appearance of the sunburst Precision had more bearing on this though.
3) A previous owner may have had it repainted.

All quite intriguing!! Just guitars eh!!

Talking of just guitars, does anyone know the whereabouts of the original fiesta red (repainted white) Shadows Precision - and are there any close up photos of it? Sorry if this seems a daft question - it's probably been asked before I guess.
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