Fender Bass Changes the World?

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Re: Fender Bass Changes the World?

Postby MMStingray54 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:41 am

GoldenStreet wrote:For years I tended to confuse Precision and Telecaster basses, due as much to the Telecaster-style headstock featured on the original Precision of 1951-52. Do we know when the familiar Stratocaster-style design was introduced, maybe following the introduction of the Strat itself in 1954?

PB1.JPG

Bill


1957. But there have been (rarely) examples of the earlier style basses dated as 1957 - I'm sure @JimN would be able to tell us which NAMM the update was issued.

I always wondered whether, with the Telecaster bass of the late 60s, and particularly after the added humbucker at the neck, Fender were somehow trying to compete with the Gibson EB3. The British players had become very influential through Jack Bruce - Andy Fraser from Free also had a very distinctive style - highly innovative and also used an EB3. Billy Cox, with the Hendrix Band of Gipsys used a white Telecaster bass (famously at Woodstock). Suzy Quattro, in the video for her first single was required to play Micky Most's white Telecaster bass on TOTP because it looked better than her actual bass, an original 57 P bass (she still has her sunburst, adonised pg original 57 P
- can be seen on lockdown internet posts).

Though the Fender bass changed the world (in the US) it did it with very slow sales in the 50s, and for various reasons, as many of the British Invasion groups were seen with Epiphone Rivoli basses etc as Precisions (if not more) - apart from The Shadows there were comparatively few British groups using Precisions. The Shadows were first and foremost wanting to look like their heroes like Buddy Holly and the Crickets, therefore the Fenders - but in the 60s the idea of a bass guitar was to make a double bass sound more prominent - the semi hollow Rivoli, Hofner and EB2 probably did a better job in the studio for British producers of achieving that. The British groups, from starting out trying to emulate US music, actually created something subtly different which was eminently saleable back to the US!!

In the US studios players mostly used the Precision. Interesting to hear Carol Kaye talk of the sessions in LA, where the bass sound was created by a string bass (upright), Fender bass (Precision) and Dano bass (Danelectro for that clicky sound) in unison! She played Dano on some tracks and P bass on others. The Duck Dunn, James Jamerson and Bob Babbitt all on P bass (though Motown used an interface (outboard pre amp), a reissue of which can now be bought!
Last edited by MMStingray54 on Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fender Bass Changes the World?

Postby RUSSET » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:00 am

I believe the original 'Strat' style headstock, being introduced in 1954 with the first Strats ever made was introduced to the P. Bass on its next cosmetic update around 1957. After the first update in 1954 with the contoured body, this 1957 update featured the Strat headstock, a new scratchplate, & the new split humbucker pickup that we are familiar with today.
It has stood the test of time ever since, for all these years, as probably the original & most popular Bass guitar of all time.
You have to admit that it is still one of the greatest musical instruments of modern times, which made it easy for us musicians to get a full range sound in our early pop/rock music adventures. We couldn't really have coped with lugging around an acoustic Double Bass for long. Thank God for Leo !

Tony.
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Re: Fender Bass Changes the World?

Postby RUSSET » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:24 am

I remember being in my first R & R bands in the early '60s. We had not much cash to spend & had to rely on whatever we could get 2nd hand for up to around £50, as we were still feeling the effects of the results of World War II. Fender guitars were only just becoming available over here in the UK, & were far too expensive for the likes of all but those few who were fortunate enough to have a father who was earning way above the average wage & maybe was prepared to sign a 'Hire Purchase' (Credit) agreement. A new Strat cost around £160 in 1962/63, & that was expensive. I believe a Vox AC30 was about £120. So, most of our bass players tended to get hold of Framus (German) Star basses, or maybe Hofner basses which were much more available here. Some of the luckier guys did manage to get an Epi Rivoli bass, or even luckier ones did manage the Fender P. Bass, but they were the exception. I never saw the Danelectro guitars/basses over here at all until the late '60s, and even then they were more likely to have been brought over here by our pro bands that were lucky enough to have been on a USA tour & had brought them back from there.

Tony.
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Re: Fender Bass Changes the World?

Postby MMStingray54 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:52 am

RUSSET wrote:I believe the original 'Strat' style headstock, being introduced in 1954 with the first Strats ever made was introduced to the P. Bass on its next cosmetic update around 1957. After the first update in 1954 with the contoured body, this 1957 update featured the Strat headstock, a new scratchplate, & the new split humbucker pickup that we are familiar with today.

Tony.


The split humbucker was very significant, alleviating a previous problem - the single coil had been quite adept in some hands, of tearing speaker cones (apparently prone to spikes in signal - possibly assisted by the players - remember most were ex or practicising upright players so very heavy handed!! Notably many 60s bass players were also).

The Danelectro was famously used by Jon Enwhistle on My Generation - and the story goes that on the bass solo he kept breaking strings and there were none available at that time - so each time a new bass was provided - until they ran out after which he recorded it on an overdriven Jazz bass. His most famous Precision was a slab bodied (limited run allegedly for Uk) version in white- however Larry Taylor of the band Canned Heat (now there was a fabulous bass player) had a slab Precision in black, bought in a US store in the mid 60s - can be seen particularly on the film Monterey Pop. Perhaps Fender used up the body run with other colours for US store stock.
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Re: Fender Bass Changes the World?

Postby GoldenStreet » Sun Jul 26, 2020 2:03 pm

Thanks, Don and Tony, interesting stuff! I've never played bass (stand-up nor guitar), but have always been fascinated by it... really since Bill Black's slap style double bass behind Elvis with Scotty!

Bill
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Re: Fender Bass Changes the World?

Postby JimN » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:05 pm

RUSSET wrote:...I never saw the Danelectro guitars/basses over here at all until the late '60s, and even then they were more likely to have been brought over here by our pro bands that were lucky enough to have been on a USA tour & had brought them back from there.
Tony.


Selmer did have a distribution deal for Danelectro in the early to mid-60s and imported the Longhorn bass and guitar as well as the Bellzouki (Vincent bell-designed) 12-strings in two models. However, they didn't sell many and the distribution deal was definitely over by 1965 (when the Selmer guitar catalogue features only Gibson, Hofner, Futurama and Hagstrom guitars).

I had a 2-pickup Bellzouki, bought s/h in 1966 at Rushworth's in Liverpool for £35. I can remember seeing the Longhorn bass in use at The Cavern, circa 1966 / 1967 and The Hollies - if I recall correctly - did a newspaper (probably Melody Maker) advert for the Longhorn guitar and bass, also around late '66.

I do not recall ever seeing the more orthodox U2 models in the UK, whether in bass or guitar form. Sometime in 1967 - and who the UK distributor was, I have no idea, the Vincent Bell Coral Electric Sitar (made by Danelectro) was announced in two different models, the more expensive with a set of drone strings.
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Re: Fender Bass Changes the World?

Postby RUSSET » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:13 pm

I remember the Slab-bodied P. Bass. Some time round about 1965, I think, I was in my '60s band playing a Night Club in B'ham & was asked by the club owner if we could carry on playing until the MOVE (top of the bill act) arrived, as they were stuck in fog on the M1 motorway. A couple of my lads new them anyway, so we agreed to help out. They eventually arrived some time after midnight, & Trevor & Ace just stood in & jammed with our lads until the night was over.
Anyway, the point of my story is that ACE Kefford, their bass player used to play a White slab-bodied P. Bass, which I now know was a ltd. edition model. I'm not sure how he acquired it.

Tony.
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Re: Fender Bass Changes the World?

Postby RUSSET » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:45 am

It's very refreshing to be able to pass on knowledge of our past in this marvelous hobby of ours. Us older members are able to inform the younger ones of our experience of living in the age we did (50s/60s) where popular music gradually changed & became more available to us as individuals to actually play, rather than just listen to on Radio, TV & records. We did struggle to finance our first instruments, but got there in the end. Today everything seems to be available at the click of a mouse button & what a great situation to have to hand.
To get back to the subject of Bass guitars, can I recommend a book in the Haynes Manuals series, which is very informative on the Fender Basses & gives all the history from those days, plus info & experience from famous bass players inc. Jet Harris. It is a really good book for information on the construction of, & how to set-up, repair or mod a bass guitar. It's also full of wonderful coloured photos of all the Fender bass models up to 2010 (in my issue). Haynes also do similar manuals on the famous guitar brands that we have come to use over the past 60 years. I have similar ones for the Strat, Tele & Les Paul.

Tony.
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Re: Fender Bass Changes the World?

Postby RUSSET » Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:01 am

I seem to remember Jimmy Paige owned a Dano U2 guitar early on. Maybe late 60s. Steve Priest of 'Sweet' definitely played a Dano Longhorn Bass in the early 70s, later moving on to a Fender Jazz Bass.

Tony.
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Re: Fender Bass Changes the World?

Postby MMStingray54 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:42 am

I understand the Danelectro Longhorn bass (reissues of which have been available in recent years) has a body constructed of 'Masonite' - that's hardboard in UK currency!! I've never played one so I have no clue what they're like, but certainly used in 60s recordings by all accounts.

I also recall seeing film of The Move with Ace Kefford using the white slab bodied Precision - I have seen other groups using them in film from that era but can't recall who they were..... that wouldn't have been The Cedar Club you were referring to, Tony? Apparently The Move rehearsed there at one time also.

The Dano electric sitar mentioned by Jim (or at least an electric sitar - I'm presuming the Dano) is used to play a pedal/counter riff in the main riff parts on Stevie Wonder's Signed, Sealed, Delivered I'm Yours (another song which is fabulous for a bass player - it's the fabulous Bob Babbitt on the recording, one of the relatively few Motown from that era that isn't their other genius, James Jamerson).
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