Best strings for Precision Bass to play Shads tunes

[Iain Purdon]

I saw John Rostill with The Shadows  at least four times and each time they used the house PA system and no miking up of their amplifiers. John's sound was always good, through what appeared to be an AC30 bass amp.

Carefully worded! What appeared to be an AC30 bass amp may have been a facade. I understand that John gravitated to using a heavier duty head and cab hidden behind somewhere, in order to get a better sound.

Licorice later acquired John's AC30 bass amp and it was refurbished for him by the E Yorks club. I have used that amp on stage and on its own it struggled to hold its own and sounded quite tame. On one occasion we miked it up and the sound through the theatre PA was sweet, rich and low - everything you could want.

That said there was nothing special about it, apart from the obvious, and I was much happier using my own modern gear which can deliver all the required sounds at a level that fits the rest of the band.

Iain

[MMStingray54]

Thanks guys, that's very interesting to know.

Lest anyone is offended by me mentioning John Rostill in such glowing terms, I do also like Jet's work (some was revolutionary - but I am more of a scholar of bass in all genres from the 70s onwards and in this, I have found it extraordinary that when learning some of the early Cliff and the Shadows bass parts, there are elements which have clearly influenced later players - particularly late 60s/early 70s rock - indeed entire bass parts have been lifted in some cases!! Mind you, how many times has the bass part from, say, Lucille by Little Richard been re-enacted on a later song.

I have watched/listened to the original Jet Harris version and the video of Licorice playing Nivram - indeed I watched Mark Griffith's version also on the final tour video, along with the rest of the concert. It's interesting to hear the different playing styles used around the same basic themes - apart from set phrases and lines all of the players use their owns licks and interpretation - I suppose this is similar to Hank Marvin altering guitar solos from tour to tour.

I have missed out Alan Jones - I find he is closest to my own style, probably because of the era - 70s R and B influence.

Finally, that Burns bass sound on the final tour on Rise and Fall of Flingel Bunt is incredible - does anyone know what bass amplification Mark Griffiths used (although I would presume, clearly DI d through the PA)?

[cockroach]

Couple of thoughts and a question:

Not many folk cranked amps way up back then, the way they did in later times..30 watts was considered more than adequate for professional use, and people wanted clarity with volume, with no distortion. As I recall everyone then wanted more treble response however...

I doubt whether anyone miked or DI'ed any items of a backline in those days, except for mikes on an acoustic guitar or a double bass perhaps...the technology and gear hadn't been invented.

Did Jet or Licorice ever use a Vox T60 unit on stage? Or did they only ever use the AC30 Bass models?

[Iain Purdon]

Some brief answers to the last two postings.

Why would anyone be offended by praise of John Rostill? This is a Shadows forum! John was bassist as long as Jet and Licorice combined. The other Shadows regarded him as the best one they had. 

I think Mark used a Roland Cube with DI to the PA. 

I read somewhere that Lic sometimes used an AC50 on stage but I know nothing about them. 

Iain

[dave robinson]

Some brief answers to the last two postings.

Why would anyone be offended by praise of John Rostill? This is a Shadows forum! John was bassist as long as Jet and Licorice combined. The other Shadows regarded him as the best one they had. 

I think Mark used a Roland Cube with DI to the PA. 

I read somewhere that Lic sometimes used an AC50 on stage but I know nothing about them. 

Iain

Mark Griffiths used an AER bass amp which was DI'd into the rig.

Ta Dave

[bassboogie]

Hi,

Just to add to this fascinating thread.
I remember reading and/or hearing an interview with Hank talking about the Shads bass players (unfortunately I cannot lay my hands on the source, maybe someone can help). Hank did say that Jet was "innovative and played loud", Brian locking "a solid bass player" and can't recall exactly what he said about John Rostill but, I think Hank rated John as their best bass player. I stand corrected on John.

So somewhere Jet must have found the volume.

Regards, Luigi

[MMStingray54]

Some brief answers to the last two postings.

Why would anyone be offended by praise of John Rostill? This is a Shadows forum! John was bassist as long as Jet and Licorice combined. The other Shadows regarded him as the best one they had. 

I think Mark used a Roland Cube with DI to the PA. 

I read somewhere that Lic sometimes used an AC50 on stage but I know nothing about them. 

Iain

Mark Griffiths used an AER bass amp which was DI'd into the rig.

Ta Dave

Thanks for this - an AER would be a completely clean sound (nice amps, especially the version for acoustic guitars). Mark also used extensively a thumb playing technique with right hand palm muting on this concert - producing a particularly noticeable tone soloed on Nivram.

Fender provided a finger rest on the scratch plate on the bottom side of the strings on a Precision of this era (and for a long tome after even though no-one used it by then) to enable a player to pull their fingers against the bottom of it, whilst pulling the strings with the thumb - I am guessing that Jet may have used this technique at times - especially in the studio?

[MMStingray54]

Hi,

Hank did say that Jet was "innovative and played loud"

I think this is a very apt description - some of the bass doubling of lead lines such as in Please Don't Tease is particularly innovative - the overdriven sound on Dynamite - the staccato almost tic tac bass sound with reverb on Kon Tiki and Fall in Love With You - all innovations (although country and western also used that tic tac bass sound).

He is also very loud in the mix on some songs - in contrast, on the track The Young Ones, the bass is almost inaudible and also very low on Wonderful Land - there must have been reasons, possibly because of the presence of orchestral strings etc - maybe there was a desire to move the emphasis away from rock and roll - nonetheless curious.

[JimN]

The T60 amp/cabinet was not available whilst Jet was with The Shadows. Howver, he did have a connection with that 30w RMS solid-state amplifier because he was given one of the first examples made in the summer of 1962 (during his first solo career).

The loudest amps that Vox did prior to that were the AC30 and AC30X (same amp, but with a bigger cabinet and two 15" speakers - not intended for bass, but for extended frequency response on guitar).

The AC50 and AC100 piggy-back style amps weren't introduced until December 1963, so Licorice too would not have been able to make use of the more powerful amps. The AC50 came in two guises: the same amp (essentially 2 x EL34) head with a choice of 18" speaker "Foundation bass" cabinet or larger-than-AC30 cabinet with two 12" Celestions and a Midax horn speaker for added treble response. Neither the AC50 nor the AC100 were big sellers.

JN

[Iain Purdon]

Jet .... is also very loud in the mix on some songs - in contrast, on the track The Young Ones, the bass is almost inaudible and also very low on Wonderful Land - there must have been reasons, possibly because of the presence of orchestral strings etc - maybe there was a desire to move the emphasis away from rock and roll - nonetheless curious.

The prominence or otherwise of the bass in the mix is down to the recording engineer. For example, on the Abbey Road CD, we hear Bruce asking for more bass in The Savage (or Witch Doctor) and being told it's already at peak level. Jet is reputed to have been in the habit of giving level to the engineer and then turning up the amp afterwards - something all bass players have learned from him! However, if Malcolm Addey wanted to turn the bass down, he could. The level of bass on many of the Licorice recordings is lower than I would have liked. I don't know why but I suspect Lic whacked the strings even harder than Jet and the recording level was set on the initial spike, so that all the sustain as the note decayed got lost.

Iain