Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

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Re: Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

Postby Jay Bass » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:08 am

Vc Squier
Heres The article i refered to.
Jay
VC Squier.doc
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Re: Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

Postby RayL » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:42 am

Selmer's 'Fender and Gibson Guitars' catalogue (dated August 1963) devotes a whole page to guitar and electric bass strings (with acoustic bass strings on the back cover). Unfortunately, string guages were not seen as important at that time so, for example, Fender Set 10 Pure Nickel Wrap guitar strings are simply quoted as "First .. £18/- doz, Second .. 18/- doz, Third .. 32/- doz , etc . Set 80 was 'Electric Bass - Flat Wound Chrome' (no roundwound listed) and were priced individually. A First was £1 1s 0d rising to a Fourth at £1 11s 6d. A set was £5 0s 0d.

Gibson 'Electric Bass' strings were slightly more expensive (a set was £5 5s 0d). while Selmer 'Electric Guitar Bass' strings were cheaper at 56/- (£2 16s). Neither of these makes are quoted as being flat wound (unlike the Fender Set 80) and since the range of Gibson guitar strings are quoted as 'Sonomatic Electric', 'Electric Spanish', 'Polished Compound Bronze' and 'Hi Fi Flat Wound' it would seem to imply that Gibson bass strings were round wound since flat wound is specifically mentioned when applicable for the guitar range.

The Burns Price List for June 1963 lists 'Bass-O-Matic Electric Bass Guitar Strings (for) Sonic and Artist Bass' . No mention of tapewound, whereas tapewound is specifically mentioned when applicable to a range of 6-string guitar strings. For the Vista Sonic 6 String Bass a range of 'Bass-O-Matic 6 String Electric Guitar Strings (Short Scale)' are listed, again no mention of them being tape wound.

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Re: Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

Postby MMStingray54 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:04 am

This is very interesting stuff - not least the fact that a set of bass strings would set you back £5 in the early 60s - about a fifth/sixth of what they cost now - I suspect salaries are hugely better than 5 times higher now, so quite a chunk of a weekly wage at the time, if you were a bass player who broke strings.

Just to clarify my comment about the Motown players, Jamerson is quoted as using a couple of Precision basses but in particular a 62 (sunburst) which he used on much of the electic bass he recorded for Motown and a range of others, and which had La Bella heavy guage flatwounds (whatever spec they may have been at the time) - which famously have been stated as never having been changed - he claimed they were part of the sound along with the general gunk from playing - and who would argue with that - at the time he was reinventing the role and style of electric bass playing, and which was an integral and upfront part of the Motown sound. The bass was stolen from him towards the end of his life (late 70s I think). Hence I was wondering whether Fender basses were possibly equipped with these (or a repackaged version of them) at the time.

This 60s info is great guys - be good to hear more, if available.
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Re: Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

Postby cockroach » Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:39 am

RayL

As far as I am aware, there were no roundwound bass strings available outside America until Rotosound UK made them and marketed them in about 1966.

The US made Danelectro basses often came with roundwounds as OE, and these basses with roundwounds could be bought in the UK from about 1965, and John Entwhistle of the Who used them and was able to develop his sound (which he called 'Duane Eddy, but deeper and no reverb')but virtually 100% of bass strings sold outside America up to about '66 were flatwounds. There was no need for differentiation in price lists, catalogues etc as a consequence.

I just found and bought a set of Ernie Ball flatwounds for my bass, and I'll see what difference the foam damper pad makes when I restring the bass, as I have been using the pad with roundwounds up 'til now.
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Re: Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

Postby bassboogie » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:20 pm

Interesting indeed and I am sure many of us are stuffing allsorts under or over the bridge. I bought a cheap Viola bass (Epiphone) in 1997 and strung it with Hofner Beatle Bass strings, link below. Compared to any other flatwound strings, these are absolutely dead, no sustain, no zing etc, but can be pricey, although mine are still fine after 15 odd years. I also tried the black tapewound strings and these are quite lively compared to the Beatle strings. This may be another avenue to explore if you're after that muted sound, minus damper. Never tried the Beatles strings on my P bass, so if anyone does would appreciate your feedback.

Regards, Luigi

http://www.thomann.de/gb/hoefner_h1133_ ... saiten.htm
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Re: Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

Postby JimN » Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:59 pm

RayL wrote:Selmer's 'Fender and Gibson Guitars' catalogue (dated August 1963) ... Gibson 'Electric Bass' strings were slightly more expensive (a set was £5 5s 0d). while Selmer 'Electric Guitar Bass' strings were cheaper at 56/- (£2 16s). Neither of these makes are quoted as being flat wound (unlike the Fender Set 80) and since the range of Gibson guitar strings are quoted as 'Sonomatic Electric', 'Electric Spanish', 'Polished Compound Bronze' and 'Hi Fi Flat Wound' it would seem to imply that Gibson bass strings were round wound since flat wound is specifically mentioned when applicable for the guitar range. The Burns Price List for June 1963 lists 'Bass-O-Matic Electric Bass Guitar Strings (for) Sonic and Artist Bass' . No mention of tapewound, whereas tapewound is specifically mentioned when applicable to a range of 6-string guitar strings. For the Vista Sonic 6 String Bass a range of 'Bass-O-Matic 6 String Electric Guitar Strings (Short Scale)' are listed, again no mention of them being tape wound.
Ray


Hi, Ray.

All electric bass strings - at that time - were flatwound unless quoted otherwise. Before 1966, the only company offering a wirewound bass guitar string was Danelectro (and even then, in the UK, the only place they could be found was actually on a Danelectro bass). Rotosound were second off the blocks with their Swing Bass roundwound set, but that wasn't until 1966. The James How Company of Bexleyheath originally sold their own strings under the "Rotop" brand, but they were the OEM manufacturers for several British guitar makers, certainly including Jennings/Vox a few miles away in Dartford and Burns on the other side of the Thames, for both of whom they eventually made guitar strings in a variety of qualities and construction types. JH&Co ought also to get recognition for their (slightly later) Tru Bass set (available from 1966 or 1967), which was essentially a light gauge set of roundwound bass strings covered (and brought up to gauge) by a black nylon flat tape. Those strings had most of the twang of the Swing Bass set but still had the freedom from handling noise that was was demanded by players thus far used to getting exactly that from chrome-plated flatwounds.

Incidentally, one of James How's first direct offerings was the "Jet Bass" set: a set of traditionally-made flatwound bass strings, endorsed by the man himself. They also made a set for the six-string bass (Vox also offered it as an OEM item under the name "Cougar Bass") - flatwound again. Even Fender only sold flatwounds for the Bass VI...

The preferences of guitarists were quite unrelated to this. Right through into the late sixties, whilst there was a lot of ignorance among guitar players ref string construction, gauges, etc, there were two sharply-defined camps as between roundwound users and flatwound users. I only ever tried one set of flatwound strings at the time (Hofner brand, which probably means Pyramid). I found them both heavy (compared to roundwounds) and dull on the bass strings. That doesn't mean that they didn't sound good in the right context of course. Just listen to Joe Moretti on flatwounds. But they weren't for me, though I do now sometimes use them on an appropriate guitar and have several sets waiting in reserve.

I recall the Gibson six-string range you mentioned. "Electric Spanish" were the cheapest set and no better (and therefore worse value) than a British set like Monopole or Rotosound. "Sonomatic" were burnished for less string noise and markedly higher in price. They were good strings at the time, but very expensive (the modern equivalent is an impostor: it has every string except one changed in gauge). The HiFi flatwound set speaks for itself, but the Polished Compound Bronze was really meant for archtop acoustic (not archtop electric) guitars. Some players did occasionally use them on electric guitars, relying upon the magnetic qualities of the steel core on the wound G, D, A and E strings. I encountered a few players who used them - usually pure rhythm players. The thing was that the different qualities of roundwounds and flatwounds were recognised and reacted to. By the end of the 1960s, it was getting difficult to find an American brand of flatwounds in the UK. I dare say that the Selmer shop in Charing Cross Road had a stock of them, but trying to find them in the provinces was starting to be a luckless task. The only brand that was anywhere near easy to find was Rotosound, with their (cheap) Top Tape set.

To summarise, "bass strings" automatically meant flatwound, unless otherwise stated, and that was the case until after 1966.
Last edited by JimN on Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

Postby JimN » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:04 pm

cockroach wrote:As far as I am aware, there were no roundwound bass strings available outside America until Rotosound UK made them and marketed them in about 1966. The US made Danelectro basses often came with roundwounds as OE, and these basses with roundwounds could be bought in the UK from about 1965, and John Entwhistle of the Who used them and was able to develop his sound (which he called 'Duane Eddy, but deeper and no reverb')but virtually 100% of bass strings sold outside America up to about '66 were flatwounds. There was no need for differentiation in price lists, catalogues etc as a consequence.


Agreed, 100%.
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Re: Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

Postby Iain Purdon » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:13 pm

Thanks for all the history everyone. It confirms what I always thought but could not back up with chapter and verse.

So for Shadows purposes a bass player needs either a Fender Precision or a Burns Shadows bass plus flatwound strings; and a damper is not vital to getting the right kind of sound. I won't say the right sound because that depends on what you do with your hands as well :)
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Re: Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

Postby MMStingray54 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:11 pm

Thanks for the history guys - very interesting. Cockroach - which group Ernie Ball's have you found - I found grp 3s are almost the same tension as roundwounds. Useful as flatwounds tend to have more tension (and less playability IMO).

Iain_P wrote:So for Shadows purposes a bass player needs either a Fender Precision or a Burns Shadows bass plus flatwound strings; and a damper is not vital to getting the right kind of sound. I won't say the right sound because that depends on what you do with your hands as well :)


Iain, at the risk of sounding too revolutionary, I think the last sentence is the most important! I don't own either of these types of basses but am pretty happy with the bass sound I get for this genre - if you cover the late 70s/early 80s era I would suggest flatwounds and muting (and maybe those types of bass) will be less appropriate, implying a change of bass for some songs or use of technique to cover the range.
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Re: Precision Bridge - Foam Dampening

Postby Iain Purdon » Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:35 am

I quite agree!
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