Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

[Teflon]

.......... Am I right in thinking that Hank and Bruce do now own Burns re-issues and use them occasionally?

I believe Bruce has at least one, as he's good friends with Barry Gibson, but I think (could be wrong!) that Hank only used his on the tours and didn't retain them. I should add, I'm in agreement with you: I much prefer my Burns over my Fender, and find the Marvin trem a joy to use. It's bonkers and over-engineered, but just seems so comfortable in use. As you say, "horses for courses"

Cliff

[hiffclall]

.......... Am I right in thinking that Hank and Bruce do now own Burns re-issues and use them occasionally?

I believe Bruce has at least one, as he's good friends with Barry Gibson, but I think (could be wrong!) that Hank only used his on the tours and didn't retain them. I should add, I'm in agreement with you: I much prefer my Burns over my Fender, and find the Marvin trem a joy to use. It's bonkers and over-engineered, but just seems so comfortable in use. As you say, "horses for courses"

Cliff

Bruce and his guitars eh? Guessing they're sitting next to Hank / Cliff's red Strat in his lounge

I just find the strat trem arm so small and annoying - just doesn't sit in my hand so well as the Burns...

[nivramarvin]

Comparing the old Burns with my Chinese Bison 64 Copy I can understand Hank‘s „clumsy“ comment.

[abstamaria]

it is my impression that Burns-era music had little general following even in its day. The Shadows changed not only their guitars but, more importantly, their style and musical content. That Sound disappeared. This perhaps was an effort by the band to adapt to a changed music scene, but there they, with the tuxedos and ruffled shirts and cuffs noted here, seemed out of place.

Their vocal numbers to my ears belonged to a different era or genre; the Shadows' 500 Miles is forgettable compared to the plaintive Peter, Paul and Mary version, for example. The instrumentals did not appeal to Shadows fans, as they were so different from the early pieces that drew them in. Jim Nugent in his wonderful curated Facebook page asked "Is this the same band that played Apache, The Frightened City ...?" I paraphrase.

The Shadows were aiming for a new market, but it seems to me the market wasn't there. By the time Burns-era music appeared, the bands here that mimicked the Shadows in the early 1960s had moved on to the Beatles, Rolling Stones, etc. More so the audiences.

I am speaking generally and from the perspective from an island in the Pacific. One can hardly be more distant from England. I accept that devout Shadows musicians will have a different experience and view.

The few enthusiasts left here pay little attention to Burns-era music, with only very few exceptions. The tracks in the album The Sound of the Shadows (which should perhaps have been named "The New Sound ...," are not known or played in gatherings and sessions. They belong to a different genre.

Is it the end of the road for Burns-era music? It seems so, sadly.

Andy

[hiffclall]

I've been following ghosty's amazing "we say yeah" podcast. The last two have included the los shadows ep and cliff's "when in spain".

I've noticed Hank's move in these tracks towards a drier / more compressed / less echo sound which to me (although I acknowledge he was playing the strat) sound very like the later Burns tone.

I've seen some people blame the Burns guitars and their tone for the demise of the shadows and I just do not agree. For me it's just that music tastes changed. Instrumentals became less popular, the Beatles etc etc. Would the shadows have stayed as popular if they hadn't have changed their sound and were still cranking out apache style sound and hits? I just don't think so. But that's just my 2p.

Personally I love "flingel" and "genie with the light brown hair", "theme for young lovers" . Great tracks. I don't think they would have been any more popular if they had been played with the so called "that sound".

Ok time to don my tin hat and wait for the die hards so revoke my membership.

[iefje]

I think the term "that sound" applies to all the music The Shadows have made. Not just the first few years of the Hank, Bruce, Jet and Tony line-up or the years where they used Fender guitars.
Regarding their popularity, if Jet and Tony had stayed with the group and the Fender guitars would still be used during the rest of the 1960s, their popularity would also have declined I think. The reason being not the personnel of the band or their equipment, but the fact that instrumental music became less popular.

[hiffclall]

I think the term "that sound" applies to all the music The Shadows have made. Not just the first few years of the Hank, Bruce, Jet and Tony line-up or the years where they used Fender guitars.
Regarding their popularity, if Jet and Tony had stayed with the group and the Fender guitars would still be used during the rest of the 1960s, their popularity would also have declined I think. The reason being not the personnel of the band or their equipment, but the fact that instrumental music became less popular.

Oh my apologies about the "that sound" thing. I thought that meant the early hank sound .

[dave robinson]

Sorry to disagree but THAT SOUND to we players has always meant the Apache to Wonderful Land era including the first EP and album. It's a magical tone that turned heads at the time. We mistakenly believed that it was all down to the Meazzi echo box, but there was more to it than just that. The Meazzi did have a unique sound and since I got my hands on one I can hear it in the preamp, but there's something more.
After those initial recordings the sound became less distinctive and more easily achievable, smoothing out somewhat.
We argued for years on these pages what exactly the ingredients were that contributed to that 'magical' tone and although certain pieces of equipment such as the Meazzi, Vox AC15 & AC30 were credited, it turns out that the Abbey Road studio was the main ingredient in what we (or I) had been focusing on. That sound is there on 'Move It' and we all know that The Shadows didn't play on that recording.
My conclusion is that it was Malcolm Addey's use of his choice of tone on the ambient reverb as well as the humble HPF (high pass filter) were the key elements in us hearing Hank's guitar the way we did. Later, when the lead guitar sound changed and seemed 'drier', the compression was more noticeable (eg Atlantis - Shindig) and the albums began to have a slightly different texture in tone.
Today, using all the 'wrong' equipment, it is possible to get very close by applying the HPF to the guitar track, regardless of whatever echo box or amp is used, with either a Fender / Squier / Vintage or any decent Strat copy or Burns Marvin / Marquee or anything close. This is what I have picked up fro years of recording and benefiting from advanced technology for which I am very grateful. So much so, that I discovered that G&L had incorporated their very useful tone control system into their S-500 & Legacy guitars that easily do what the HPF did to Hank's guitar in Abbey Road all those years ago. I copied the design and added the same circuitry to a few of my Strats and am able to get THAT SOUND by twisting one knob - happy days.

[Didier]

I had seen the Shadows on stage at the Paris Olympia in end 1960 or early 1961. Hank was of course using his Meazzi and the sound was fabulous. I saw them again at the same venue in 1964. To my surprise they had new Burns guitars and there was no noticeable echo on Hank's guitar. Their playing was still superb, but I had been disappointed by the sound...

Didier

[abstamaria]

You were so lucky, Didier. I am envious.
You