Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

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Re: Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

Postby dave robinson » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:39 pm

I have quite a few favourites that are from the Burns era and back in the day we actually started our set with Chatanooga Choo Choo and included Bossa Roo in the show. They were received well enough amongst the mix of pop stuff of the day and I remember playing Tonight at one point. Two of my favourite albums are Dance With The Shadows and Sound Of The Shadows and I remember being disappointed with their subsequent stuff after those and it gradually drifted from the excitement that we felt in 1960. I don't think the general public dislike the tunes from the Burns era, it's the fact that they don't know them and slipping the odd one in can be workable. It's the same with any of the big sixties bands though, if you start doing alblum tracks from The Stones, Hollies, Herman's Hermits, Manfred Mann et etc, you lose the crowd. The Beatles to some extent are the exception, as long as you don't go too far out. We recently used And Your Bird Can Sing and it did nothing . . . I love it. In contrast, Michelle goes down well. :)
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Re: Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

Postby MeBHank » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:05 am

When writing the set lists for The Shadowers' live shows (not including convention sets) I would choose pieces which created a distinct mood and atmosphere. Unfortunately very little of the Burns era ever made it into the show. We would play our own version of Flingel Bunt, heavily based on Hank's version from his solo tours (only featuring Matt on piano instead of a second lead guitar to make it a 'duel'). We would sing Don't Make My Baby Blue, and I don't think we eve played any other pieces that are generally considered Burns tunes. DMMBB gets a rather lacklustre audience reaction on my solo gigs, and I can't remember the last time I sang it. It's too unfamiliar and too middle-of-the-road. I think that's the same with a lot of the material from the Burns era.

Depending on the duration of the set I am required to perform, Flingel Bunt occasionally makes it into my Shadowing Hank tribute show (and I've made my own backing track to copy Hank's extended version). I asked on the SH Facebook page which pieces people would like to hear in such a show and no Burns pieces were suggested apart from Stingray... and I don't own a Fender VI! You're more likely to hear Mountains of the Moon and A Tall, a Tall Dark Stranger due to the dynamics they add to the show. It's very hard to choose which pieces to leave out when I've only got an hour onstage at some gigs! It's brutal. Every track has to contribute something and stand out for its own particular reason for me to be able to justify its inclusion.

I can't speak with any authority because unfortunately I wasn't there, but I get the impression music was evolving in such a way that the public became bored with The Shadows after the introduction of the more raw post-1963 beat, rock, and R&B groups. The Miracle aside, there was a definite lack of strength in melody (eg: no Jerry Lordan pieces) and the instrument sounds had a more polished, mellow quality (eg: smooth-sounding Top Boost AC30s which didn't distort) at at time when all the other relevant groups were rough around the edges and proud of it. Not to mention the changes in the way the instruments were played (eg: Brian's technically superb drumming as opposed to Tony's less controlled flair). Musically, The Shadows' material lost the all-important edge at the same as their image did. They wore dinner suits and blended into the establishment with their comfortable smiles, and we know that the ground-breaking material that has true longevity comes from breaking the mould and doing new things - things which excite and even seem uncomfortable to some in society. In the space of a couple of years they went from sparkling and bright to staid and gentlemanly. It all became too mature. Four lads in their mid-twenties went from teen idols to dad/uncle-like figures overnight.

I love Legend as a band (and as top, top blokes!). I chose them for ShadowsFix in 2013 and would seriously consider them again if I could make another event happen. They play the music with excitement, affection and humour. The Burns era is a vital part of a Shadows event. But I can understand it when the music from that period doesn't make it onto the set lists of a gig for the general public.

That's my take it, anyway.

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Re: Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

Postby cockroach » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:30 am

Thanks Justin and Dave...you've pretty much fully answered DavidM's original question, IMHO! :)

I can only agree that, when performing for money for average folk, it's essential to play what they recognise, know, and love...OK, perhaps include a few other items which may not be quite as well known...but most people who are non- musicians but love music, I've found, far outnumber hardcore fans and musicians at most gigs...

I made the mistake of pushing my first group in the '60's into doing obscure 'hipster' type material rather than chart hits etc...it was a waste of time, and I've regretted it since..
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Re: Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

Postby dave robinson » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:36 am

cockroach wrote:Thanks Justin and Dave...you've pretty much fully answered DavidM's original question, IMHO! :)

I can only agree that, when performing for money for average folk, it's essential to play what they recognise, know, and love...OK, perhaps include a few other items which may not be quite as well known...but most people who are non- musicians but love music, I've found, far outnumber hardcore fans and musicians at most gigs...

I made the mistake of pushing my first group in the '60's into doing obscure 'hipster' type material rather than chart hits etc...it was a waste of time, and I've regretted it since..


The image of the three white Burns guitars is iconic, they look terrific ! The problem was, as Justin pointed out, they nearly always went with the dinner suits and bow ties, suggesting 'not rock & roll'. I loved the image, but I knew I was in a minority.
When the Shads began to fade I turned my attention to The Yardbirds as I liked Jeff Beck and what he was doing at the time, so consequently our band went a little that way too, but Motown was happening and we lost our way because we wouldn't play any in our show. We did have a small 'cult' following with the bluesy stuff we were doing but had to resort to commercialising ourselves, adding Beatles, Stones, Kinks, Manfred et al and later The Monkees and Byrds stuff, before going into cabaret for a decade. I learned later, that to be succesful we had to play what people wanted to hear, which is the key to filling most of our gigs today. I can honestly say that I love the stuff we do, which makes it an easy job, which allows us to slip in a fair amount of Shadows stuff which goes extremely well. :)
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Re: Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

Postby David Martin » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:24 pm

Thanks for all your posts guys...
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Re: Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

Postby Moderne » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:57 pm

This is probably not relevant, but once a year I play a 'Shadows' set with a band called No Tools Required. They are a very good modern gigging band but are all closet Shadows fans and who re-christen themselves The Silhouettes when I play with them - at the Peopleton (near Pershore in Worcestershire) Show. I play an original Burns Marvin (purchased in 1988 from Andy's Guitars in Denmark Street...I absolutely love it!) and along with all the classic Shads early '60s hits we play Flingel Bunt, A Place in The Sun and Deerhunter. It all goes down very well! No one has ever said, "Why aren't you playing a Strat?" and the Burns songs go down as well as the rest of the set. I have to say I've always loved the Burns Shadows sound and, whilst the guitars don't have the 'iconic' design-classic aura of the Strat are still great-looking and sounding instruments - can't understand people who don't like them!
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Re: Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

Postby MikeAB » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:18 pm

Not sure what all the fuss is about re artists getting 'smoother' really. Almost every artist of longevity has the same problem with any of their fans still around from when they were new and 'ground breaking' . e.g Moodies (R.I.P. Ray), Genesis, Knopfler, McCartney etc.

Hank and the Shads have always been top of their particular genre, albeit to a limited audience, and what more can you ask.
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Re: Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

Postby neil2726 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:46 pm

Maybe its nothing to do with the guitars - just the changing music scene at that time! I doubt if we would have heard the Burns era numbers any more than we do if they had continued to use Strats! No doubt if all the early hits had been played on Burns hardly any of us would have had a Strat! I have both Burns and Strats and play both eras on each.
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Re: Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

Postby cockroach » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:54 pm

You only need to see the Shads and Cliff's performance (excellent though it was!!) and image (dinner suits etc)at the 1964 NME Poll Winners Concert, which also featured the Beatles, Stones, etc to realise that the times were indeed a-changin'...and fast too..

When The Shadows toured here in Oz in 1967, apart from longer hair, and the Burns guitars, they basically had the same image etc...still those dinner suits (what the Americans call tuxedos) which frankly was so out of date by then...they were all round entertainers not rockers any more...
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Re: Burns Era Shadows Music: The end of the road?

Postby RogerCook » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:48 pm

I know it's Flingel Bunt onwards etc but is there a definite list of what was recorded with Burns guitars?

And is there anyone living in East Kent who wants to put a Burns band together :lol: ?
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