DAVE ROBINSONS ZOOM G3 PATCHES

[Teflon]

Well folks like I said, I borrowed my friend Tony Parnham's Zoom G3x to re-acquaint myself with it's capabilities and remind myself how to programme it with the echoes for Shadows music. I made some new patches using knowledge I have picked up since making the first patches in 2015 an I feel that I have improved them a lot tonally and more accurately with revised timings to the head positions.
This really is a good machine and for those on a budget is a very good affordable option to get even closer to the sound we love.
This can never be a real Meazzi, nor is it capable of cloning a TVS3, but I will say with confidence that sitting and playing in my living room, the sound is more authentic than I ever managed to get it with the old Zooms, Alesis & Magicstomps. I put it down to the improved technology with the components and of course experience.
I'll make new patches available to all for free, as soon as I'm satisfied with them all.

That's very generous of you Dave, more so considering you have both a Meazzi and a TVS3, so have no real need for the patches yourself.

I'd love a set for myself, so will be keeping a close eye on developments . Once you're happy with them and they're out "in the wild" so to speak, if I can be of any help in terms of distributing them, I'd be more than happy to assist.

Cliff

[dave robinson]

I've been sat doodling on the guitar whilst watching he footy on TV and I'm still well impressed with what I'm hearing. That's important because it can appear to change from one day to the next but there is a consistency of satisfaction taking place. I'll dig out the TVS3 that I put away and make some comparisons. I'm confident that the TVS3 is a good measuring tool as it's exactly like the records. Paul Rossiter captured every nuance on his machine and everybody who has been to my house has heard it and they hear the 'magic' too. I can't promise being able to match it, but what I have done is get the G3x to sound more 'vintage' or 'authentic' than the Alesis, Magicstomp and earlier Zoom machines did. For me that is a massive improvement. A lot of it is to do with tone and the amount of distortion you allow into the patches that is actually useful, something I immediately spotted when my real Echomatic arrived.
I'm waiting for the real deal (Meazzi Echomatic) to return from the hospital where it's having major surgery by way of modifications to give me Echomatic 1 & Echomatic 2 options. That is the machine I need to use as a yardstick for the new patches. As it stands though I'm very pleased with the Zoom G3x as they are so affordable and do sound good.
When I finalise these patches I'll let you have them and I would be delighted for you to share with as many people as would like to use them.
There is no major reason why anybody should have to pay extortionate amounts of money for patches, nor for a decent echo box.
As I've mentioned before, I liked the G3x when it came out but the major problem for me was switching between the Gary Moore patches to the cleaner ones because you get a loud noise through the amp as you pass it, because of it's high gain. I am working on a way to minimise that problem using the noise gates.

[Stratly]

Hi Dave,
I hope you are well.
You are a true gentleman! I would love to receive a copy of your new Zoom G3 patches, when they’re ready. I don’t have a lot of cash (or talent!), but I’ve got a 2nd hand G3 and would like to get back into having a go at playing my favourite tunes.
Thank you so much for your efforts and kind offer to us all.

[dave robinson]

You have the stuff you need Malcolm, I've realised it isn't about expensive kit. I've been going through them again today and I'm doing patches with and without the amp simulation so people will be able to choose as they will all come together as part of the package. If I don't wait for my Meazzi to come back to compare them with I should be able go post them in a couple of days. Even as they are sounding now I would use them myself in concert, I've done a comparison with my current stage rig which has been the Vox ToneLab and sound wise, they are more authentic than those.

[MeBHank]

I've been sat doodling on the guitar whilst watching he footy on TV and I'm still well impressed with what I'm hearing. That's important because it can appear to change from one day to the next but there is a consistency of satisfaction taking place. I'll dig out the TVS3 that I put away and make some comparisons. I'm confident that the TVS3 is a good measuring tool as it's exactly like the records. Paul Rossiter captured every nuance on his machine and everybody who has been to my house has heard it and they hear the 'magic' too. I can't promise being able to match it, but what I have done is get the G3x to sound more 'vintage' or 'authentic' than the Alesis, Magicstomp and earlier Zoom machines did. For me that is a massive improvement. A lot of it is to do with tone and the amount of distortion you allow into the patches that is actually useful, something I immediately spotted when my real Echomatic arrived.
I'm waiting for the real deal (Meazzi Echomatic) to return from the hospital where it's having major surgery by way of modifications to give me Echomatic 1 & Echomatic 2 options. That is the machine I need to use as a yardstick for the new patches. As it stands though I'm very pleased with the Zoom G3x as they are so affordable and do sound good.
When I finalise these patches I'll let you have them and I would be delighted for you to share with as many people as would like to use them.
There is no major reason why anybody should have to pay extortionate amounts of money for patches, nor for a decent echo box.
As I've mentioned before, I liked the G3x when it came out but the major problem for me was switching between the Gary Moore patches to the cleaner ones because you get a loud noise through the amp as you pass it, because of it's high gain. I am working on a way to minimise that problem using the noise gates.

Having recently become a G3X owner, I've been toying around with different sounds and I can confirm the noise gate really does work (I use Zoom's own patch (ZNR)). I've built a couple of David Gilmour patches, two Brian May ones so far, a couple of Dire Straits sounds, and I've also added some 'extra beef' to some of the Roland/Shads echo patches in an attempt to create my own version of Gary Moore sounds and similar (though I'm becoming less fond of Moore's playing style as time goes on). Even when using the highest gain 'pedals', like the Big Muff emulator, the patches are silent when not playing - even with a set-to-max-drive Tube Screamer positioned in front of the G3X. With the silence turning into screaming power without the need to even touch a control it all sounds very smooth and sharp, and will enhance the professionalism of my gigs, as well as the extended variety of sounds I now have at my disposal.

I'm a big fan of this piece of kit. It's pretty user-friendly and there are some fantastic sounds, although some of the copies of the simpler overdrive pedals are a bit off, IMO (eg the Tube Screamer emulation seems too choked and muddy).

I'm interested in trying your echo results, Dave. It'll be fun to see if the timbre of the Ross Hall patches can be improved on.

[dave robinson]

Justin Daish wrote;

'I'm interested in trying your echo results, Dave. It'll be fun to see if the timbre of the Ross Hall patches can be improved'


I won't be improving Ross Hall's patches Justin, I have improved my own that were made long before Ross Hall became involved.

[MeBHank]

Justin Daish wrote;

'I'm interested in trying your echo results, Dave. It'll be fun to see if the timbre of the Ross Hall patches can be improved'


I won't be improving Ross Hall's patches Justin, I have improved my own that were made long before Ross Hall became involved.

Sorry, Dave, I didn't word that very well. Yes, I realised you weren't using his. The statement of yours which piqued my interest was: 'what I have done is get the G3x to sound more "vintage" or "authentic" than the Alesis, Magicstomp and earlier Zoom machines did.' I'm very much looking forward to seeing what echo 'unit' you've used from the G3X's arsenal of sounds, and hearing the results, of course.

[dave robinson]

OK that's cool, I didn't want Ross Hall thinking I was using his patches, far from it because I was doing mine long before he struck up. I made my patches originally from listening to my ESE Echomatic and taking the timings from that, but recent events have opened my eyes and I have new head positions that match the titles ghat they are meant to replicate. Having the Meazzi and TVS3 has been an education and I've had a three month crash course in programming what I want to hear from my echo box.
Listening to Paul Rossiter and reading his stuff on the TVS website has been a revelation to me and re-focused my interest in my music. His input into his TVS project is so comprehensive with brilliant attention to detail, that it easily justifies the price of his excellent TVS3 and I recommend to anybody who is serious about achieving the sound that the only way to do it is by finding a Meazzi with the correct head positions, or buy a TVS3. I know there are other more affordable and acceptable options, I have some of them, but I have learned why they will never equal The TVS3 sonically. In truth I believe it's because they are made to sound 'clean'.

[MeBHank]

OK that's cool, I didn't want Ross Hall thinking I was using his patches, far from it because I was doing mine long before he struck up. I made my patches originally from listening to my ESE Echomatic and taking the timings from that, but recent events have opened my eyes and I have new head positions that match the titles ghat they are meant to replicate. Having the Meazzi and TVS3 has been an education and I've had a three month crash course in programming what I want to hear from my echo box.
Listening to Paul Rossiter and reading his stuff on the TVS website has been a revelation to me and re-focused my interest in my music. His input into his TVS project is so comprehensive with brilliant attention to detail, that it easily justifies the price of his excellent TVS3 and I recommend to anybody who is serious about achieving the sound that the only way to do it is by finding a Meazzi with the correct head positions, or buy a TVS3. I know there are other more affordable and acceptable options, I have some of them, but I have learned why they will never equal The TVS3 sonically. In truth I believe it's because they are made to sound 'clean'.

I understand. The ESE is great but I was aware that the head spacings are a little off. It could have been even better if they hadn't tried to 'improve' on the mechanisms of the old units. As a piece of engineering it was brilliant, but it lost the flaws which made those old bits of kit sound so magical.

You're right about modern equipment sounding too clean. For years we've talked of 'wow and flutter'. I believe healthy Meazzis have an even balance of both wow and flutter. Too much of either affects the sound negatively, but conversely if you clean it up too much you sterilise the sound, and again it suffers. That's why the best sounding units have always had some form of wow and flutter emulation.

I liken it to the use of the tremolo. If you have no pitch variation the sound is flat and lifeless. Introduce some vibrato via the trem or by your fretting hand, thereby essentially introducing a level of controlled imperfection, and the sound comes to life. I've decided I don't like the idea of perfection.

[dave robinson]

Hi Justin, thanks for clearing that up.
I agree about some of the simulations on the G3, but having a real Tone Bender and some of the other pedals cloned gives one an insight to how they perform and helps with the programming. Having an AC30/4, Fender Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb also helps because it gives you a reference point, as does the TVS3.
It's more about getting the timings right and what else is added to get the echoes to sound convincing. You'll be able to see when you get them and I hope I can help others to gain confidence and experiment with these machines. As I've already mentioned I owe a lot to Paul Rossiter for his research and advice which helped me a lot in this project.
I for one am more than happy to learn something every day, which has been the case over lockdown.