(O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

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Re: (O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

Postby RayL » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:41 am

Picking up on Harry's point, the film's publicity actually misrepresents it.. The DVD box says "TELSTAR is the story of the worlds first independent record producer, Joe Meek". Excuse me? If they were still alive Sam Philips or Norman Petty, for example, might have something to say about that.

The real point is that in Telstar, Joe Meek is being used rather like Robin Hood or Moses - a figure from the past on which to hang a story. Robin Hood and Moses lived far enough in the past that nobody can be sure of the details, so only the legend remains. With Joe, on the other hand, the detail is available, which is why the film is so irritating.

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Re: (O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

Postby dave robinson » Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:13 am

RayL wrote:Picking up on Harry's point, the film's publicity actually misrepresents it.. The DVD box says "TELSTAR is the story of the worlds first independent record producer, Joe Meek". Excuse me? If they were still alive Sam Philips or Norman Petty, for example, might have something to say about that.

The real point is that in Telstar, Joe Meek is being used rather like Robin Hood or Moses - a figure from the past on which to hang a story. Robin Hood and Moses lived far enough in the past that nobody can be sure of the details, so only the legend remains. With Joe, on the other hand, the detail is available, which is why the film is so irritating.

Ray


Ray, eyes are beginning to glaze over, Rob has covered the cock ups and the movie is out there, if you don't like it then don't watch it, can we move on please. :?
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Re: (O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

Postby George Geddes » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:56 pm

Anybody spot Con O'Neill in Wallander last night?

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Re: (O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

Postby Amanda » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:31 pm

I have an Album here : Barber In Berlin, Chris Barber and His Jazz Band,
engineered by Joe Meek who recorded it in the centre of the first row
of the stalls. One of the best Live Barber recordings I've ever heard..
[Check Out My Meazzi Site: http://www.meazzi.org.uk
And Tape Echo Forum: http://ac15.org.uk/meazzibbs/index.php

You're Never Alone With A Mitzi!
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Re: (O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

Postby Martin Page » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:31 pm

George Geddes wrote:Anybody spot Con O'Neill in Wallander last night?

George

I thought I recognized him!

Martin.
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Re: (O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

Postby DaveB » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:59 pm

Just to say after watching the movie, and not knowing much about Joe Meek, my enjoyment of Telstar took a bit of a nose dive.

Thanks Rob for putting the record straight.

Dave.
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Re: (O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

Postby GoldenStreet » Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:51 pm

RayL wrote:
Uncleboko wrote: To this day I think the drumming is awful - very twee, which is probably down to Joe Meek.
.

Clem's only audible contribution to Telstar is the 'galloping' rhythm which he plays on his closed hi-hat using brushes (you can hear him open it and let it ring for fractions of a second after the key-change to D). Because of the many overdubs any other drums are just lost in the background but there is certainly no snare to hold the beat - it is all down to the hi-hat rhythm (in the same way another world-famous No.1 record (Rock Around The Clock) has no regular snare, the beat is maintained by the slap bass).

The lead line for Telstar was played (during a thunderstorm!) by Geoff Goddard using Joe's simple one-note-at-a-time Clavioline keyboard. The melody was later overdubbed by Peter Knight of The Moontrekkers a day or so later. He played an octave higher and an octave lower to make the sound stronger. Peter now owns that very Clavioline (he bought it after Joe's death) and you can see Peter talking about it on Youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBmZA8fzOLk.

Ray


Was lead guitarist, Alan Caddy actually involved in the recording? I somehow suspect he probably wasn't!

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Re: (O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

Postby Arpeggio » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:42 pm

Alan Caddy (who was actually a very fine musician - former head chorister at Westminster Cathedral and grade 8 violin / piano before he took up the guitar) was very much involved. It fell to him to interpret Joe Meek's bizarre vocal 'demo' of "Telstar" (luckily he also had a second stage demo from Dave Adams to work from too) and then work out the chord progression. To simplify - he trusted Roger LaVern and Clem Cattini to start working on piano / keyboards - drums ideas themselves. Having worked out the chords for George Bellamy & run through a few ideas with him, he then left George Bellamy to practise the rhythm guitar part. It was decided that more rhythm was needed - so Alan Caddy played rhythm on electric guitar to augment George (who was playing acoustic).

As well as laying down (whilst still working it all out) the backing for "Telstar" - they also needed a 'B' side....from scratch. What eventually became "Jungle Fever" started off as a 'jam session' with Alan / Clem / George / Roger. Meanwhile . . .they would rehearse sections, try run - throughs and Joe experimented with various effects. The biggest problem (time -wise) was Heinz. He simply wasn't the world's greatest bass guitarist. Alan Caddy had to work out a fairly basic bass line for Heinz and then literally teach him how to play it. Alan Caddy, Roger LaVern, Clem Cattini and Geoff Goddard (albeit 2nd hand - as described to him by Joe Meek) have all confirmed this fact to me.

Alan Caddy apparently told Joe Meek that it would be much better if he (Alan) played bass because he could do it in 10 - 15 minutes! However, Joe was insistent that Heinz had to be on the record. So, to cut a long story short, a lot of time was spent rehearsing Heinz on the bass - but he IS on the recording. The whole of "Telstar" and "Jungle Fever" (apart from the lead clavioline lines on both) were recorded on Sunday, July 15th 1962 - 10.00am - 10.00pm and Monday, July 16th 10.00am - 2.00pm. Bear in mind that both were started completely from scratch. By Monday afternoon (& with neither track completed) theTornados had to drive back to Great Yarmouth to back Billy Fury. Alan Caddy was still very unhappy with the bass line. He told Joe that he could provide a much better, driving and more ambitious bass part. Joe duly recorded Alan playing bass and actually put BOTH bass parts onto the finished recording. Also - there was no lead guitar break for "Telstar". Shortly before he left - Alan Caddy was allowed ONE pass at recording his solo. Joe had told him not to worry - as he would simply put the solo into the record twice! In the event - he put the first solo in complete and then 'cut' half out when 'splicing' it in the second time around. The Tornados were fully expecting to come back to finish the recording on Sunday July 23rd. But....Joe was on a mega roll. He spent the entire week working on the recording (getting in Geoff Goddard - & possibly Peter Kinight too - to finish the whole thing off). By the time he'd finished his 'meister work' - the Tornados scarcely recognised it!!! So...after my very long reply. Alan Caddy is on "Telstar" playing lead, rhythm and bass!

Bests....Rob :D
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Re: (O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

Postby GoldenStreet » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:23 pm

Ahem, many thanks, Rob, for your detailed (and technical) account!

For years I've wondered exactly who was doing what, particularly in the context of the rhythm parts of the recording. Presumably, it was also Alan playing the harp-like arpeggios(!) on electric guitar dubbed over his solos, however Joe Meek decided to arrive at those finished sections! George Bellamy's acoustic rhythm guitar is somewhat swamped in the overall sound (mono only!), but I've got pictures of the group from the time with him playing a Gibson J45 jumbo, which I imagine was used here.

Yes, Alan Caddy (sadly now deceased) was a multi-talented musician, rather than born to be the star guitarist in the spotlight, and another of the unsung heroes working unheralded in the background at that time and elsewhere in subsequent years.

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Re: (O/T) TELSTAR - THE MOVIE ANOMALIES

Postby GoldenStreet » Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:46 pm

With reference to Jungle Fever (the B side of Telstar), it possible to hear brief snatches of the tune in the background to the current Guinness advert, promoting the rugby Six Nations Championship... jungle warfare in a sporting context perhaps!

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