How to get the Ventures (!) sound.

[Bojan]

Hi Andy,

I don't know about Jazzmaster, but on my Rickenbacker 340/6 I use both Thomastik-Infeld and Pyramids, and they both deliver a fantastic vintage sound. The main difference between them is that TI are low tension and Pyramids are high tension (although still not as high as D'Addario Chromes). So, comparing the same gauge, TI's would probably give the feel of being lighter strings and would be easier for bending. Pyramids are great for hitting strings hard because they give better resistance to the pick.

The question of tension is a problem for Rickenbacker guitars because they have a rather sensitive neck and some people have reported that Pyramid strings have warped or even broken Rick necks, especially where the neck fuses with the headstock, which is the neck's weakest spot. This why they are no longer so popular among Rick players and have been replaced mainly by Thomastik. However, I do not think that string tension would be a problem for Fender bolt-on necks, and therefore choosing between these two flatwounds would only be a matter of playing preference.

But, perhaps you should also look into compressed strings (also called ground wound or half wound strings). Here is what it says about them in Wikipedia: "cross between roundwound and flatwound. Such strings are usually made by winding round wire around a round or hex core first, then polishing, grinding (thus the name, ground wound) or pressing the exterior part of the winding until it is practically flat. This results in the flat, comfortable playing feel of flatwounds, along with less squeaking, without sacrificing the tonal characteristics that come with roundwounds. The polishing process removes almost half of the winding wire's mass, thus, to compensate for it, manufacturers use winding wire of a heavier gauge. The strings because of the less material, usually have a raised price compared to flat or round wound."

Factory Rickenbackers come with these compressed strings (made by Rickenbacker) and they sound very good. The only reason I have stopped using them is because they are unavailable where I live, but I would definitrely recommend that you try them.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Bojan

[abstamaria]

Thank you, Bojan.

I have no experience with either Thomastic-Infields or Pyramids, so appreciate your explanation. The link I attached to an earlier post did say that TI strings were easier to bend than Pyramids; I wondered why that was, but you have now explained that. The link also said that the Pyramids provided a more vintage early-60s found than the TIs. Would you agree with that?

I would prefer TIs for playability. I have a Jazzmaster on order so am deciding on the strings. Compressed strings seem very interesting.

Many thanks again.

Andy

[abstamaria]

Hello, Eugene,

Thank you for your advice, which I missed somehow. I like Bob Bogle's early sound too, which to me is the Ventures sound. I do like Trambone and Gandy Dancer, which I think were played by Nokie, but am not fond of the new Ventures found played on thin strings with a thumpick on a hard tail (no tremolo) guitar. That is probably a function of mt age.

You use very thick (13-56) gauge D'Addario Chromes! Those must be very difficult to bend, as Bojan points out. Thank you for your recommendation.

I hope the disaster that struck the Eastern Coast of Japan has not affected you or your family and friends too badly. My best wishes for the quick recovery of your country.

Andy

[abstamaria]

The link I posted earlier has this to say about Jazzmasters and flatwound strings:

"Flatwound strings produce a very warm and thick tone, hence the reason why the Jaguar and Jazzmaster are equipped with 1MEG pots and produce a sharper sound, this is to purposely balance out the excessive ‘deadness’ of Flatwounds. Of course if you do not use flatwound strings, then the Jazzmaster and particuarly the Jaguar sound excessively sharpe in tone; wrong string choice is again the problem."

I think I read on this forum that Bruce used a Jazzmaster for "Tales of a Raggy Tramline." If Jazzmasters came with flatwounds when sold, I wonder if those were flatwounds in the original recording of "Tramline."

Andy

[Marcpes]

" By the way, if his strings were so thick, how did Bogle do all those bends, for instance, in Bulldog?"

Hi Andy,
I´ve read sometimes ago a Nokie´s interview where he said that he was the lead guitar in Bulldog.
However, my ears tell me there were 2 guitars playing lead line that could be Nokie and Bob.
In the beginning of their careers it was a very common practice they share this job.
Best regards,
Marcpes

[Bluesnote]

Some players manage to get bends out of heavy strings. Stevie Ray Vaughan used 12's and sometimes 13's + a high action and managed all these blues bends with them. I think someone put a link in here about him?
I now use 12's on one of my guitars but I dont do much in the way of bending with that instrument, I manage the first and second string and that it, the wound third is a no no.

[George Geddes]

I think some of these guys tune down a semitone to make bending easier?

George

[roger bayliss]

SRV definitly tuned to Eb and he at times used a set of 16's !

[abstamaria]

I think some of these guys tune down a semitone to make bending easier? George

That might account for the Ventures' version of "Blue Moon."

[abstamaria]

Taking into account the good recommendations here (and not being brave enough for Eugene's 13-56 strings), I installed 12-53 flatwounds on my Jazzmaster. It was good that Bojan noted that Thomastik-Infields are lower tension compared to Pyramids, so I went with Thomastiks George Benson Jazz flatwounds.

They are wonderful - easy to play and, surprisingly, can be bent, although i need to practice more. I plugged into a Twin Reverb, with some reverb dialed in, and played against Walk Don't Run, Lullaby of the Leaves, and other pieces on the PA system. The sound was very, very close, and the nearest I've gotten to the Ventures' early sound. Fantastic!

I initially used a newish reissue tweed Fender Twin (with a separate Fender tube reverb) and this sounded really good, as I could crank it up higher than the Twin Reverb. Unfortunately, something in the Twin "blew" again, so I had to switch to the Twin Reverb. Anyway, I find the two amps very close in sound, but my untrained ears may be missing a nuance.

It's seems unusual to talk Ventures in Shadowmusic, but I have gotten more advice on the Ventures here! I wish there were more discussion on Ventures gear and technique in the Ventures forum, as there are many knowledgeable participants there and I am sure several good players.

Many thanks to all,

Andy