That Sound - Flingel

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Re: That Sound - Flingel

Postby Iain Purdon » Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:27 pm

Looking forward to that Dave
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Re: That Sound - Flingel

Postby shadowriter » Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:45 pm

abstamaria wrote:Our friends at TVS have a humorous (and I think very good) version on

https://youtu.be/pFu4LYSyjoI


Never seen that version. So entertaining and
so humorous. Just what we need at this time.
Loved it. Thanks for the link.
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Re: That Sound - Flingel

Postby Iain Purdon » Tue Feb 02, 2021 1:22 pm

And, as you will see in his latest thread...

http://shadowmusic.bdme.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17763

... Dave has come good on his promise!!
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Re: That Sound - Flingel

Postby David Martin » Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:17 pm

What an interesting thread. For what it's worth, here's my take. Tin hat on!

I think the latest Shads releases prove conclusively that The Shadows couldn't replicate their recorded sound when playing live. The nearest I reckon is on the ABC Kingston album....

There are several more recent players, notably Justin Daish, Phil Kelly, Colin Pryce-Jones, have more authentic sounds than Hank ever managed.

As to Flingel... I believe the piano is in the mix the entire time, but is most prominent in the intro lick.

There's another element to the lead tone not mentioned above, and that is the DeArmond 610 permanently in circuit in "treble" position.

Top Boost? The recipe is as posted earlier by someone else except.... you need an old one. The modern top boost wiring is not the same, and the two controls are not so markedly interactive.

https://youtu.be/mzINrRrqmCI Flingel is the last track here. '64 Top Boost, DeArmond 610, EFTP Q2 boosting the signal loss. Modern Marvin. I'm really happy with the sound I could get...
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Re: That Sound - Flingel

Postby Iain Purdon » Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:01 pm

David Martin wrote:I believe the piano is in the mix the entire time, but is most prominent in the intro lick.
There's another element to the lead tone not mentioned above, and that is the DeArmond 610 permanently in circuit in "treble" position.
Top Boost? The recipe is as posted earlier by someone else except.... you need an old one. The modern top boost wiring is not the same, and the two controls are not so markedly interactive.
https://youtu.be/mzINrRrqmCI Flingel is the last track here. '64 Top Boost, DeArmond 610, EFTP Q2 boosting the signal loss. Modern Marvin. I'm really happy with the sound I could get...


A delight to see that again. That's a great live sound on Flingel. It complements what Robbo is currently doing to reproduce the sound of the studio recording.
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Re: That Sound - Flingel

Postby JimN » Mon Feb 08, 2021 2:34 am

David Martin wrote:What an interesting thread. For what it's worth, here's my take. Tin hat on!
I think the latest Shads releases prove conclusively that The Shadows couldn't replicate their recorded sound when playing live. The nearest I reckon is on the ABC Kingston album....
There are several more recent players, notably Justin Daish, Phil Kelly, Colin Pryce-Jones, have more authentic sounds than Hank ever managed.
As to Flingel... I believe the piano is in the mix the entire time, but is most prominent in the intro lick.
There's another element to the lead tone not mentioned above, and that is the DeArmond 610 permanently in circuit in "treble" position.
Top Boost? The recipe is as posted earlier by someone else except.... you need an old one. The modern top boost wiring is not the same, and the two controls are not so markedly interactive.

https://youtu.be/mzINrRrqmCI Flingel is the last track here. '64 Top Boost, DeArmond 610, EFTP Q2 boosting the signal loss. Modern Marvin. I'm really happy with the sound I could get...


Hmmm... The Rise And Fall of Flingel Bunt was recorded on 25th February 1964.

The first recording which can be heard to feature the DeArmond tone / volume pedal (as an effect) was Blue Sky, Blue Sea, Blue Me, on 26th March 1965. Importantly (I suggest), there is no use of the effect on either Little Princess or Friends, both recorded in October 1964. Each is a tune one might have expected to feature the 610 had it been available.

I find it difficult to accept that the pedal was present and in-circuit in February 1964!
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Re: That Sound - Flingel

Postby dave robinson » Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:44 am

I don't think Hank had the DeArmond at that time, as Big Jim Sullivan first used it on Dave's Crying Game in 1964 which is what impressed Hank and prompted him to buy one.
The sound that I rightly or wrongly call 'the grunt' on the echo repeats of Flingel Bunt is something from borne from the circuitry of the echo machine, as Paul Rossiter said probably a Vox Long Tom. The tone is in the echo repeats, not the guitar signal and that has been the tricky bit to reproduce. I sort of heard it on the eTap 2 machine that I once owned, which leads me to agree that it was probably a Long Tom. :)
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Re: That Sound - Flingel

Postby David Martin » Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:22 am

You misconstrued my post. I didn't suggest that Hank had a 610 permanently in circuit. I'm recommending that today's players, in order to get closer to the classic recorded Burns sound - which the Shads signally failed to do - is enhanced by the addition of the 610. I assume that studio eq was responsible for the recorded sound.
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Re: That Sound - Flingel

Postby dave robinson » Mon Feb 08, 2021 1:43 pm

Out of curiosity I think I'll slip my DeArmond 610 into the chain and try that out, it's no trouble to try it. :)
I'm excited about another tape echo I've acquired this week and look forward to trying it out. It's a six head machine by Klynstrom, who are driven by Terry MacDonald who designed and built many of the Watkins Copicats since 1965. For this project his remit was to build a tape echo without the inherent problems of wow & flutter etc.
According to the reviews he did it very well, but sold out to Blue Coconut Unity when Charlie Watkins became too ill to continue.
I've contacted him to discuss and the machine should be here tomorrow so I'm quite upbeat about it. I've always wished for an IC-400 with six heads and this is very close to that format, including the vari speed but with superior transport stability. We'll see.
I'm also bringing in another TVS3 and need to figure a way of getting it here from Australia without our thieving government benefiting too much. I am going to Australia as soon as we're permitted, but it may be a while yet so I may not be able to wait that long. :)
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Re: That Sound - Flingel

Postby David Martin » Tue Feb 09, 2021 10:24 am

I'll be interested to see how you get on with the 610. I think you have the kit to analyse whatever it does to the signal so that it could be reproduced with an equaliser.

But that setup, with an X/Y switcher was what I always used on our gigs. Top Boost channel for Burns, full bass 1/3 treble or thereabouts, 610 set to treble, and usually - but not always - reverb not echo. For Fender numbers, centre the 610 and switch to the EF86 channel provided by Roger Alcock's Vintage unit, with EFTPQ2 echoes as appropriate. I always boosted the signal into the amp from my rack to compensate for the reduction caused by the 610.

I was happy with the results, and I had a good number of compliments from folks who know...
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