Pickups...

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Re: Pickups...

Postby roger bayliss » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:17 pm

The MIJ Strats have often been fitted with Texas and so called vintage strat pickups and the bodies are either Basswood or Alder depending on the model/spec and a wide variation in tone can result due to this alone. I would certainly try upgrading the pickups to a set of vintage pickups and thats a matter for personal choice in the end. I have the CS 57/62's and the CS54s and both give the rights tones but I now prefer the 57/62's on my American vintage 57 strat. If I was going to get a MIM I'd be inclined towards the Classic Players as the 50's version has a 57/62 pickup fitted and the 60's version the CS69's and have the right tonewoods as well. Have heard these in use on sound files and the come across well. In fact the 50's Classic player was my other choice if I did not get the 57 Vintage. The MIM 50's Classic strats have vintage spec pickups fitted but are not same as the CS PU's and whilst a nice tone it's not the right tone in my view and lot's of our people end up retro fitting PU's on them. The Classic Player in my view is a better option.

Look at the speacs given on this site for MIJ and you will understand there can be a fair bit of variation in woods and PU's
http://www.guitaremporium.co.uk/index.p ... uitars&a=0

HTH
Last edited by roger bayliss on Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pickups...

Postby roger bayliss » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:30 pm

David Martin wrote:Thanks both... Never really "bottomed" the pickup height thing except with Kinmans. Would you care to develop that idea for us Roger? (and/or anyone else who knows about that stuff...)


There is an article on Chris Kinmans site covering pickup setup and other setup issues. He refers to the height of the PU as the first point of call really for where the tone of the guitar is affected. The 'sweet spot' is often around the point where the harshness of the PU starts to go/appear and you have to experiment with this to find what suits you and the guitar you are setting up. Some players just like to hear plenty of 'bite' and the mekers set up guide suffices in that instance. Have a look at many top players strats and you may notice that many have the PU lower and looking at early photos of 343436 it's clear the PU's were fairly low. HBM these days seems to have his PU's much higher and with certain types of Alnico it may be needed/essential and Kinmans alnico is not as strong a pull as the Fender vintage types. It's one of those player preference things. Pickup hieght may change as they age and the pull of the magnets decrease for instance as well. Matter for your preference in the end.

HTH
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Re: Pickups...

Postby Geoff Alderton LH » Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:04 am

Hi all. I have just installed a set of custom wound LH Bare Knuckle single coils into my Strat. No rw/rp mid pickup. The pickups read 6.3 for the bridge and 5.8 for the mid and neck. The magnets have a vintage 50's stagger. I replaced all the electrics, installed a CRL three way switch,and re wired with cloth/wax NOS vintage type wire using a 54-61 Strat wiring diagram. Pots were replaced with new ones, as previous CTS 250K, and a NOS C-D wax paper .1 mfd/150 vcd capacitor was installed, as per 58-61 Strats. The guitar was then re strung with D'Addario .013- .056 Chromes and given a full service / MOT. The Valvetronics went back into the spare bedroom and the AC30 brought out of retirement back on to the stand. I spent a good half hr with a screwdriver adjusting the pickups, no FX just guitar and amp, untill I found the three Strat sounds that, to my old ears, are the start point in trying to get 'That Sound'. I have now put the Q2-EFTP into the system and my initial thought's are, its the nearest, I myself, have been. Not top of the table but not in the relegation zone. So I, as we all do, will keep trying to get from mid table and in to the top four. Regards Geoff.
PS; I will consider offers from mid east and eastern european businessmen/woman to finance the push to get into the top four.
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Re: Pickups...

Postby Martyn » Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:44 pm

My 2007 MIM strat has (I'm advised by my local luthier) standard US pickups (presume 'standard' means 'nothing special' :? )and I've debated fitting CS54 or '57/'62 ones hoping to get closer to the sound I think I'm chasing, but without being able to compare the sounds each type produces with exactly the same audio setup it's difficult to establish whether or not it actually would be worth making the change. Compared to the used purchase price of my guitar a year or so ago, new pickups would represent just under 50% of the guitar purchase cost, so I'm reluctant to buy any set without first being convinced in my own mind I'll hear a notable difference. I'd be miffed if I spent the money only to find I couldn't really hear much difference :(

Some manufacturers refer to theirs as being vintage pickups without explaining exactly which vintage. I know a couple of manufacturer sites provide audio samples of their pickups but we could do with a generalised sample sound chart of some sort that would enable us to scroll down the list to compare each pickup type compared with other manufacturers' versions, each playing the same sample of a tune dry - perhaps alongside an identical sample recorded using identical echo/reverb.
Of course I realise this is a pipe dream and different guitars can vary in tone just because of the wood, paint, neck, strings but wouldn't it be useful to have such an audio comparison feature in a sort of try-before-you-buy facility? That way we wouldn't have to endlessly wonder, we'd just be able to make up our own minds based upon what we were hearing.

I did say it was a pipe dream . . . :roll:
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Re: Pickups...

Postby David Martin » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:11 pm

Just fitted a set of 57/62s to a MiM Classic Player '60s Strat... marked difference to the originals. Much closer to the ideal: less bass and a slight hollowness in the midrange, and an increase in top such that, for an authentic Apache sound, volume needs to be turned down to 7 or 8... (listen to the original again and see how muffled it sounds...)

Very pleased with the improvement...
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Re: Pickups...

Postby Martyn » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:07 pm

David Martin wrote:Just fitted a set of 57/62s to a MiM Classic Player '60s Strat... marked difference to the originals. Much closer to the ideal: less bass and a slight hollowness in the midrange, and an increase in top such that, for an authentic Apache sound, volume needs to be turned down to 7 or 8... (listen to the original again and see how muffled it sounds...)

Very pleased with the improvement...


Hi David,
Which were the originals on that guitar? Don't suppose you have a small section of 'before' and 'after' recordings that you could post for comparison?
Regards,
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Re: Pickups...

Postby RUSSET » Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:38 am

Hi Martyn,
The Classic Player '60s Strat comes fitted with Fender Custom Shop '69s, whereas the CP '50s Strat has the 57/62s fitted as standard. I've not tried the former, but I know Dave Robinson has one.

Tony.
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Re: Pickups...

Postby bassgod » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:26 am

Custom shop 54's used to be very good. Something changed at the same time as Fender went to the new plastic packaging. First off when your new set arrived, they used to have a red dot to denote which was the bridge pickup. This was needed as the bridge pickup had a hotter wind than the other two. A whole batch went out without the red dot, so unless you had a test meter you had no way of telling. Secondly there was/is a real problem with a very noticeable volume drop on the top E pole. AxesRus had so many sets returned he has discontinued selling them and also CS69's. Tony ay AxesRus told me that both these model of pickups also have been suffering from wildly different output readings from set to set. I personally favour 57/62's and Tonerider Vintage are also excellent.

The other thing that gets neglected is capacitors. Generally the caps in stock guitars are absolute rubbish and contrary to popular belief, they DO affect the sound even if the tone controls aren't being used. Why put up with a 1pence chinese piece of junk in an expensive guitar. I use Sprague Vitamin Q Paper in Oil Capacitors in all my guitars and they definately sound better even if they are expensive.

Andy
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Re: Pickups...

Postby Simon Underwood » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:40 pm

It's nice to know that loads of others have been changing pickups as often as I have! How many others, in their quest for 'that sound' have come full circle like me?

In my CS 56 NOS, I tried Kinman FV-HMS and Tonerider Pure Vintage. I improved on these by re-fitting the original pickups.

In my 79 Strat, I tried DiMarzio TDS-1s, Duncan Alnico 2 Pros, DiMarzio FS-1, Kinman FV-HMS and Duncan Hot Strat. With the exception of the Alnico 2 Pros, which sounded as good as the originals, I improved on these by re-fitting the original pickups.

The Kinmans are now in my Highway 1 Strat, due to the fact that I need hum-cancelling pickups for playing in church and other places where there are those nasty hearing aid loop things.

My point is, if anyone's considering changing pickups on any USA Strat in order to imprve the sound, beware! It could get very expensive, and you could end up back where you started!

I now have a set of Toneriders surplus to requirements mounted in either a single ply 8 hole scratchplate or an 11 hole modern scratchplate. Anyone interested?
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Re: Pickups...

Postby Martyn » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:21 pm

Chatting with my luthier in Hartnolls, Plymouth to day and, knowing my Shads interests, he thought I might find these pickups of interest if I was looking for vintage tones. He said these 'tweed' or 'vintage' ones are the regular items but this specialist (Kent Armstrong) also custom builds them to any specifications, which obviously costs a bit more.

"Tell him the sound you're after and he'll produce pickups to do that specific job", was his comment.

He's worked on and played strats fitted with each type and the custom jobs he thought just that bit sweeter, albeit he felt the regular ones would be fine. He said they were on a par with CS54s or 57/62s but at a lesser cost, not carrying the Fender Custom Shop brand and obviously not so well known.

http://www.wdmusic.co.uk/search?page=1& ... at+pickups

Just wondered if anyone here has come across or used these and if you think they're worth investigating further.
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