Pickups...

This is the place to find out or share tips!

Moderators: Iain Purdon, dave robinson, George Geddes, David Martin

Re: Pickups...

Postby abstamaria » Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:50 pm

User avatar
abstamaria
 
Posts: 977
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:27 am
Full Real Name: Andres Sta. Maria

Re: Pickups...

Postby bor64 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:04 pm

Hi Andy,

Nice pic put it's difficult to see the pole heights in this angle....
That's why I upload a picture taken from the side....much easier to spot.
Here's a 54 naked pu. and a 58 set where everything did go bonkers!

Roger,

They where measured ten years ago for the Oasis project.
As you can see a original 54 pu is different then the cr*p Fender sells you as genuine CS 54's... Fender doesn't have a CS shop pickup winding department seated in CS with such a large output, so you can buy CS 54 all around the world it's all sale BS...

In 1960 Fender changed the magnet orientation to south up and later the wire to plain enamel (cheaper the heavy formvar)

Cheers Rob
Attachments
58wrong (450 x 337).jpg
58wrong (450 x 337).jpg (31.76 KiB) Viewed 2722 times
54 (450 x 337).jpg
54 (450 x 337).jpg (29.52 KiB) Viewed 2728 times
"afterwards everyone is clairvoyant"
User avatar
bor64
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:22 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Full Real Name: Rob Aartsen

Re: Pickups...

Postby Uncle Fiesta » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:10 am

I realise I've posted this one before, but have a listen and see if you can work out what pickups are being used:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhe068iL1Xs
User avatar
Uncle Fiesta
 
Posts: 909
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:31 pm
Location: near Gainsborough, England
Full Real Name: Steve Tebble

Re: Pickups...

Postby petercreasey » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:29 am

Uncle Fiesta wrote:I realise I've posted this one before, but have a listen and see if you can work out what pickups are being used:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhe068iL1Xs

It's a yellow 3mm thick elastic band stretched over a Swan vesta box, the echo is adjustable by the amount you slide open the box. The pick used sounds like a wishbone from a Sainsbury's frozen chicken . ( don't use a Waitrose one the packaging is a bit different)
:lol:
Peter

You don't stop playing when you grow old
You grow old when you stop playing
User avatar
petercreasey
 
Posts: 648
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:16 pm
Location: A building site north west of Barnsley
Full Real Name: Peter Creasey

Re: Pickups...

Postby Uncle Fiesta » Sun Oct 20, 2019 10:09 am

That's cheating Peter, it doesn't count if you were spying on me through the kitchen window.
User avatar
Uncle Fiesta
 
Posts: 909
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:31 pm
Location: near Gainsborough, England
Full Real Name: Steve Tebble

Re: Pickups...

Postby abstamaria » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:01 am

Rob, all,

If 34346 was supplied (abd probably Intended by Fender to be played) with heavy flat wounds, as was the practice of Fenderthen, why would Fender install pickups with that unique stagger on 34346? The stagger would be wrong for the intended strings and the 7.25” radius neck, wouldn’t it?

Andy
User avatar
abstamaria
 
Posts: 977
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:27 am
Full Real Name: Andres Sta. Maria

Re: Pickups...

Postby roger bayliss » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:41 pm

I know as well as the g pole being high for vintage stagger , the b pole is lower than top e pole to balance things out. Thus if you want to lower g pole for plain g , it follows you need to balance b pole too by raising it to same height as e pole .

ROB, What were the measures values for 343436 pu's if any quoted ? My guess is all about 6k .

Another point about early pu poles was they were bigger diameter than later and modern pole pieces. This would increase the brightness I read in an article. Not sure what north and south poles would do to sound.

Maybe it's the winding being in contact with the pole pieces that has an effect in vintage pu's , but eventually the wire corroded due to reaction with pole pieces, shorting out pu. Perhaps that's why modern pu's use sleeves to prevent that.

Sometime the formvar wire was thicker than usual too certainly appears pu's from 59-60 were quoted at 30thou instead of usual 28thou.

Yes I agree the winding and assembly and selection of pu's could be haphazard as well as affected by availability of parts. They were wound by hand and you can easily envisage operators losing concentration at times !

Finally AL-NI-CO comes from Aluminium, Nickel and Colbalt and did you know Alnico 3 does not contain any colbalt ! They also have less magnetic pull than the other types typically gauss 500 whereas others 600 gauss I read. Not so prone to stratitis when close to strings. Magnetic pull on vintage Fender pu's can be weaker some say and this helps the sweetness of the tone.
American Pro Series Strat 2017, G&L S500 Natural Ash
User avatar
roger bayliss
 
Posts: 1501
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:15 am
Full Real Name: Roger Bayliss

Re: Pickups...

Postby bor64 » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:30 pm

Hi Andy,

Fender employees didn't think twice when the grabbed a pre-fab pick guard with all components installed on it, to assembling the 34346 strat.
Pu's were made in batches and they were made all the same no separate sample for neck,middle,bridge ...
So when a Mexican beauty grabbed 3 pu's, it was the luck of the draw 3 of the "lower G pole samples" were fitted in the plate.
Perhaps just a that time there were many more such "not standard stagger" at the assembly line...
They were able to make around 100 guitars a day at that time....

Hi Roger,
There are so much factors which influence the sound of the pu's, just a quarter turn with a screwdriver altered the sound more then some people imagine.
I've two strats made very close to each-other... the pu's are just behind the comma they have a different in reading, but the sound both unique with the same set up!

With your technical comments about the pu's pf 59, I presume your inspired by this list I placed in a other thread a few weeks ago?


It's a extended list


1954 to 1967 Fender Stratocaster Pickup Specs

Year Ohms Wire OD Insulation Turns WD MP Wound
1954 5.76k .0030" Formvar 7956 TL/TG North Hand
1955 5.89k .0029" Formvar 7844 TL/TG North Hand
1956 5.98k .0029" Formvar 8012 TL/TG North Hand
1957 6.02k .0029" Formvar 8105 TL/TG North Hand
1958 6.20k .0028" Formvar 8350 TL/TG North Hand
1959 5.95k .0030" Formvar 7925 TL/TG North Hand
1960 6.33k .0028" Formvar 8293 TL/TG South Hand
1961 6.19k .0029" Formvar 8119 TL/TG South Hand
1962 6.22k .0028" Formvar 8220 TL/TG South Hand
1963 6.37k .0028" Formvar 8319 TL/TG South Hand
1964 6.25k .0027" Formvar/Enamel 7980 TL/TG South Hand
January 4, 1965, CBS bought Fender Musical Instruments.
1965 5.80k .0026" Plain Enamel 7626 TL/TG South Machine
1966 5.76k .0026" Plain Enamel 7630 TL/TG South Machine
1967 5.88k .0027" Plain Enamel 7656 TL/TG South Machine
Year Ohms Wire OD Insulation Turns WD MP Wound

The following table shows the difference in pickups by Fender model. Wire specs (gauge, insulation) are for the earliest models produced.


Fender Pickup Specs by Model Model Wire Gauge Insulation Avg. Turns
1000 Pedal Steel 42 Formvar 8000
400 Pedal Steel 42 Formvar 8000
5 String Bass 42 Plain Enamel 12,000
Bass VI 42 Formvar 8550
Deluxe 6 LapSteel 42 Formvar 8350
Deluxe 8 LapSteel 42 Formvar 8550
Dual 6 Steel 42 Formvar 8350
DuoSonic 42 Formvar 8350
Electric 12 42 Plain Enamel 12,500
Electric Mandolin 42 Formvar 8000
Jaguar 42 Formvar 8550
Jazz Bass 42 Formvar 9000
JazzMaster 42 Formvar 8500
Mustang 42 Formvar 7600
Precision Bass 42 Formvar 10,000
Stratocaster 42 Formvar 8350 (1958)
Telecaster (lead pu) 42 Formvar 8000
Telecaster (neck pu) 43 Formvar 8000
Model Wire Gauge Insulation Avg. Turns

Cheers Rob
"afterwards everyone is clairvoyant"
User avatar
bor64
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:22 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Full Real Name: Rob Aartsen

Re: Pickups...

Postby abstamaria » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:01 am

Rob, that’s incredible information.

You’re the expert here - are you implying the unusual (“hybrid”?) stagger found on Hank’s guitar, which is similar to the vintage stagger, but has the G pole set lower so that it matches the high E in height, is an anomaly? A manufacturing slip?

I can’t seem to find any reference to that type array in any of my Fender books, and Fender doesn’t seem to refer to it at all, but then my materials are so few. Considering the favoured string gauges up to 1959 and even 1960, it seems unlikely that Fender would offer such a stagger.

Best,

Andy
Last edited by abstamaria on Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
abstamaria
 
Posts: 977
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:27 am
Full Real Name: Andres Sta. Maria

Re: Pickups...

Postby bor64 » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:57 am

Hi Andy,

Please read my replies again....I've stated that on the original 34346 the magnets on the the bottom bobbin are flush and not "pushed trough".
They just put a high E magnet on the place of the G pole....It could be a mistake by some one...
Apparently there are quiet a few of this pu's so I can imagine it was done because they had to.
Imagine they ordered a couple of thousands magnets in different lengths and the supplier didn't counted them correctly or weighted wrong.
So they decided to use high E poles instead....
Fender did the bevelling by hand,magnet by magnet so a lot of work, the bevelling was done to push the magnet with less resistance trough the bobbins.
Later with stronger machines and time the bevel was scripted, so again cutting the cost...
Please Andy stop thinking the 34346 was a special one off for Fender....it wasn't, it was just one of the custom orders they get irregular...
The custom orders where just build between the others(except the painting) they just chose a highly figured neck and put a pre-ordered (off factory) gilded tremolo block.
Nobody did think twice or gave a t*ss when they grabbed the scratch-plate/pick-guard from a batch with the now fabled stagger....
Let alone thinking about the string gauge...there wasn't any other then the standard full nickel 13-56...

Andy did you see pictures in my previous reply??? the 58 almost flat magnets....?
My original 65 Marvin has single slot pick guard screws...Paul Day told me...common practise when they run out cross-heads at the local hardware store!
Vox amps with different coloured light jewels dito...
So again the 34346 isn't a magic stick made for Hank because he was like Harry Potter ;)
I've played Apache dry on the 34346 from the first to the last note (with I think 9's) without trem arm....goosebumps all over...but it's no magic stick!
When I arrived home I grabbed my 58 same feel on the guitar neck in handling except the (then) 14-62 now 13-56 ...but no goosebumps ;)

Cheers Rob
"afterwards everyone is clairvoyant"
User avatar
bor64
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:22 pm
Location: The Netherlands
Full Real Name: Rob Aartsen

PreviousNext

Return to How To Get "That Sound"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: stug345 and 2 guests

Ads by Google
These advertisements are selected and placed by Google to assist with the cost of site maintenance.
ShadowMusic is not responsible for the content of external advertisements.