How to get the Ventures (!) sound.

[abstamaria]

Did you get to watch Nokie, Jim? I am amazed by the schedule he keeps - several nights in Japan, a hop to Manila, and a few days later Anaheim. He seemed to have difficulty walking on stage.
I was just watching a YouTube video on Bob Bogle playing. He seems to play closer to the bridge than most, and note the pinky on the trem bar, Very different from Hank.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8tXdPXYoq4

Andy

[JimN]

Hi, Andy,

Yes, I did see Nokie playing on the Friday night. I was busy all day Saturday and on Sunday and Monday nights, I was staying at a hotel that had no wi-fi, so couldn't post.

Nokie was backed by a pick-up band by the name of Venturesmania (including two other guitars [one played by Deke], bass and drums). There is a good review (and lots of photos) at the Surfguitar 101 website, at:

http://surfguitar101.com/forums/topic/12265/?page=2#p168907

Set list is recorded there as: Walk Don't Run (twice), Journey to the Stars, Spudnik, Yellow Jacket, Hawaii 5-0, House of the Rising Sun, Driving Guitars, Black Sand Beach, Diamond Head, Pipeline, Wipe Out, Penetration, Caravan, Out of Limits, Slaughter on Tenth Avenue, which sounds about right to me (I wasn't taking Geddes/Bradford-style notes!). I'm not sure that the above is the correct order, though WDR was definitely first.

Nokie was second from top of the bill. Paul Gilbert, a shredder ex-Racer X, was top of the Friday bill.

A member of SG101, "Unsteady Freddie", has posted videos of the two nights at:

http://www.youtube.com/unsteadyfreddie

Enjoy...

JN

PS: Nokie's version of Apache is only for Shadows fans who are not of a nervous disposition.

[abstamaria]

Thank you, Jim. Those are quite interesting links. I didn't know that site existed. It's good that there's plenty of enthusiasm all around.

Best,

Andy

[abstamaria]

I posted this in the fledgling “Fans of the Ventures” site, hoping to be less off-topic on that forum. I am posting here, too, as there seems very little interest among Ventures fans in capturing the Vnetures “sound,” perhaps because of the wide variety and long evolution of Ventures pieces. I encourage discussions in that Ventures site, so perhaps there can be the same level of enthusiasm for Ventures techniques and gear as we do here for the Shadows.

I am trying to approach playing the Ventures in the same way most Shadows enthusiasts play Shadows covers. That means trying to play a piece in the same style and with the same sound as the original recorded version. I realize Ventures fans (and the Ventures themselves) don’t subscribe to this approach, so I am setting this out for those who enjoy this sort of endeavor. Shadows fans seem to.

As the “sound “ of the Ventures varies tremendously from piece to piece and it is difficult to categorize Ventures styles and sounds even by era (as it is with the Shadows), I will focus here on the original 1960 version of “Walk Don’t Run.” Here are my guesses, probably wrong, on what gear to use, so please correct me as necessary.

Lead Guitar: Bob Bogle used a 1959 or early 1960 Jazzmaster, so that would be ideal. For the cover guitarist buying a new guitar, a Jazzmaster made to pre-1963 specification, with the thick rosewood fretboard (often called the “slab board”), seems closest. In 1963, the rosewood fingerboard became much thinner. The Ventures Jazzmaster had this slab board.” Fit with thick (13-56?) gauge flat-wound strings. Three-color sunburst ideal (the equivalent of Hank Marvin’s trademark “Fiesta Red”).

Rhythm Guitar: I am assuming Don Wilson used his first Stratocaster, probably a 1959 model with a maple neck. See the cover of the Walk Don’t Run album (with the real Venmtures on it). This was most likely fitted also with thick (13-56?) gauge flat-wound strings.
I would assume that a 1956-onward Strat would be correct, as the pre-1956 Stratocasters had ash rather than alder bodies. Fender changed over to a rosewood fretboard in 1960, so those models would not be spot on. All-maple-necked guitars are supposed to have a brighter tone. I note that Don changed to a rosewood-fretboad Strat by the time of the Colorful Ventures album, which shows him with such a guitar.

Ventures WDR.jpg (31.55 KiB) Viewed 10562 times

Bass Guitar. I assume a Precision bass, also fitted with flat wounds, but I am guessing here.

Amplifiers: According to the book “Walk Don’t Run,” for the March 22, 1960 recording, the “amps consisted of two Fenders, (Vibrolux and Bassman), and a Gibson model GA-40.” I assume Bob used the Vibrolux and Don the Gibson amp. I know too little about the Vibrolux and GA-40 amps to recommend current equivalents.

If one has to get a new amp rather than vintage ones, perhaps a Fender Twin Amp or a ’65 Twin Reverb, both tube (valve) reissues by Fender, would be satisfactory. Would those have the same valves and circuitry as a Vibrolux? To my ears, the sound is very close.

The current Bassman amp is a guitar, not a bass, amp and different in both design and sound from the original. The new Fender TV Bassman bass amp might be close, but this is a hybrid amp, so an all-tube bass amp might be a better alternative. Perhaps those more knowledgeable than me can set me up straight on this.

So there. I hope this is interesting to you. Comments and corrections will be appreciated.

Best,

Andy

[Didier]

Hi Andy,

It seems that there are many Ventures tribute bands in Japan. Here is one of them, the M-Ventures : http://www.ne.jp/asahi/mosrite/the-vent ... Tokyo.html
But you probably already know them !

Didier

[abstamaria]

Thanks, Didier. That is an interesting link. They dress in identical suits, too, just like the 60s.

The Japanese have been very loyal to the Ventures, and some of the fans are very young. My impression is that Mossrite is the preferred guitar for their cover bands, except those with very old guys like myself. Eugene, who posts here, is from Japan and an avid enthusiast.

Best,

Andy

[abstamaria]

I spent most of Saturday playing early Ventures pieces, like Walk Don't Run and Lullaby of the Leaves, comparing my sound against Bob Bogle's, played through the studio monitors.

I used a 1959-spec Jazzmaster with thick flatwound nickel Thomastik Infield G Benson strings (12-53) and a '65 Twin Reverb reissue. I must say the sound is very, very close. (The playing is something else.) I did try a Fender Twin reissue too, which we happen to have in the studio, but the Twin Reverb produced a much closer, almost identical sound to the old Ventures recordings.

I used a heavy Fender plectrum (probably 1.2). I thought I would also try the one remaining George Dennis pick I have, which sounds so great on Shadows pieces. Surprisingly, the Fender was closer to the original Bogle sound, which actually is not bright and is slightly damped to my ears. The GD plectrum, because of it's sharp tip probably, produced a brighter, more resonant sound.

I had a friend sitting in, who could tell when I changed picks without looking. Our conclusion on the sound was the same, so it doesn't seem to be my imagination. Now to get more practice hours in.

Regards to all,

Andy

[JimN]

I'm with Robbo on this one... Bert never replied to my letter, and neither did Muriel Young!

Muriel won't be replying to it now.

JN

...and unfortunately, neither will poor old Bert.

[Iain Purdon]

Nor did Wally Whyton reply to mine, but I did get to meet him later in life.
I wonder what happened to Pussycat Willum?

[Iain Purdon]

But back to the Ventures.

I'm inclined to agree. They have made some very good records and seem to have been around for ever. I can't say there was anything specific about their sound that I thought was characteristic or could nail in my mind. If you played me a Ventures record I hadn't heard and told me it was somebody else playing I'd happily accept that -- and vice versa.

I am not knocking them at all. But, as they said, "the Shadows had their thing" and it is quite a thing! We can spend years analysing it - indeed many members of this forum have done just that - but, whatever it is, it's unique in a way that, to me, the Ventures are not. But no discredit to the Ventures.

That said, Andy, I for one don't see the Ventures as being wildly off topic on this forum. There are many overlaps with the Shads, and theirs is a substantial one. You've only to look at the length of this thread to see that!

Cheers - Iain