Amplifying an acoustic guitar. How to get Bruce's Sound

[abstamaria]

In a studio but not recording, what is the most accurate way of amplifying a steel-stringed guitar for Bruce's early J200 sound?

1. Plug into acoustic guitar amp.
2. Plug into a mixer, whether powered or with powered speakers,
3. Same as 2 but use a direct or DI box (I don't understand how this will help for short cable runs).

Is the piezo pickup adequate for the task, or is it the limiting factor?

I know there is a 4th route - to mic the guitar. This seems ideal; it skips the pickup and allows the guitar's natural sound to be heard.but what a complicated task!

Advice and suggestions will be much appreciated.

Best regards,

Andy

[cockroach]

Andy

Pictures I have seen just show Bruce playing the J200 sitting down in front of a hanging studio microphone...just try that!

There were no piezo pickups or guitar pre-amps around in 1960...

[abstamaria]

Thanks, John,

The problem with using a microphone (or microphones - the BBC procedure suggests two mics) is that it is so complicated. The microphones have to be at the right distance and position relative to the guitar, so the guitarist can't move. The microphones will also tend to pick up sound from the amps and drummer, requiring "gobos" (those acoustic screens that insulate the musicians and their mics from ambient sound). There is the issue of feedback. And the "correct" microphone, such as what Abbey Road used, costs more than a very good guitar! One has to have the patience and dedication of a Roberto Pistolesi.

I was hoping there would be an acceptable alternative.

My best,

Andy

[burnsfan123]

Hi Andy,

if I had that problem, for live gigs I would take a variax acoustic modelling guitar.
It's absolutely easy to handle and the sound is more than acceptable.

Greetings
Dan

[neil2726]

I know things have improved over the years but I used to use my Ovation straight thro the PA - reduces the chance of feedback.

[davec]

Hi Andy,

I agree that the Variax is the best solution -- but if you want to amplify a piezo equipped acoustic, then route it through a Magicstomp into the mixing desk/PA or acoustic amp.

Regards
DaveC

[dave robinson]

Here's some good advice having experienced the lot. The Variax acoustic sounds nothing like a Gibson J-200. I have a Gibson J-200 and for live gigs DI it through the PA with excellent results. I get equally excellent results using a mike in the studio - it sounds like what it is.
I had the Variax acoustic and by comparison it sounds dreadful and was a great disappointment, I got rid of it after a couple of days and took a refund.

[roger bayliss]

Fishman do some of the best accoustic PU's and something like the Ecllipse Matrix Blend (Undersaddle with internal mic) would be a good choice. There are demos of the sounds on site and Utube.

http://www.fishman.com/products/view/ellipse-matrix-blend

or the Rare earth Blend

http://www.fishman.com/products/view/rare-earth-blend#artists


Also LR Baggs

http://www.lrbaggs.com/m80/

[abstamaria]

Thanks, Dan, Dave, all,

To take out less variables from the equation, I do want to use a J200, which we are lucky to have. The problem is how to amplify it when we play at home or our pleasure.

On the few shows we've done, our rhythm guitarist has just plugged into a DI box that is plugged into the house PA. There is little choice. It's beginning to look that seems the simplest for a studio, too. But I will eeriment with microphones (I am a complete newbie there.)

Except for noise reduction, I still don't know what advantage a a Di box adds if the mixer has a 1/4" Jack.

Thanks for the leads on the pick-up systems, Roger. Perhaps I should have one retrofitted to the J200.

Best,

Andy

[cockroach]

Hi Andy

If it is difficult or causes feedback problems to mic the guitar at the level you need for the whole band, then use the PA.

Has the guitar got a built-in pre-amp with the piezo pickup? Or does it have just have a passive under-saddle piezo pickup element with no pre-amp/battery unit?

Generally, such a setup can be made to sound quite natural when put through a reasonable PA .

I've played acoustic through PA systems for years, either with a passive DI box and then a mic lead which gives a proper balanced low impedance signal to the PA mixer, ord I've also just plugged the guitar straight into the PA if the PA channels also had regular 1/4 inch phone jack type inputs, but this only works well if the guitar pre-amp is a reasonable quality unit with decent EQ.

Using both a DI box with a guitar pre-amp and piezo pickup will give a very loud powerful signal into the PA however...may overdrive the PA pre-amp in the mixer section and cause distortion.

For some reason, I've never got a good sound with an acoustic guitar amplifier however..but if you have a decent PA, use that for the acoustic guitar as well as the vocal mics.

Hope this helps!