New Shadows CD

[Arpeggio]

Agreed it's a tough economic market nowadays & EMI couldn't put out a compilation such as "As Good As It Gets..." as cheaply because they will pay artists royalties, publishing etc., etc. But....they can source everything from master tapes and they do have the option re: Avs, unreleased items, stereo re-mixes etc. Nevertheless, they just don't seem to appreciate that such a release would be a good seller. Yet, they told me that their own 'market research' showed that it wasn't viable. Or was I just being fobbed off? Yet....they put out a 6CD set of Adam Faith!! If they can put out that....then why not a similar 6 CD set by the Shadows?? Also in recent years EMI have put out comprehensive sets (eg Billy J Kramer / Dakotas, Gerry & the Pacemakers, Swinging Blue Jeans, Cliff Bennett & the Rebel Rousers, Freddie & the Dreamers etc) of EVERYTHING (or virtually everything) recorded by particular artists for EMI. These sets have seen everything remastered, first - time stereo releases, unissued material etc., etc

I mean, Cliff Bennett for example!!!! Again, no disrespect to Cliff Bennett - he's a great singer. But.....consider his EMI career - "One Way Love", "Got To Get You Into My Life" (plus one other minor single and one minor chart album). How wide can his fan base be nowadays....yet he was treated to the complete EMI recordings release scenario. Again, so why not the Shadows??

I can confirm that ALL parties concerned were happy with the Shadows at the BBC - as were EMI - it was the BBC themselves who blocked that release. It's all about money to some people....with the end result that they finished up making absolutely NONE (which didn't seem to bother them over much) and depriving Shadows fans of what would have been a magnificent release.

Re: unissued Shadows material. Yes, there is still quite a lot in the EMI vaults. Yes - some of it (rough, unfinished demos / preliminary try - outs & run throughs with mistakes etc) should stay that way. But.....there are lots of fine unissued takes too and quite a few tracks which could be re - mixed into stereo. Legally, Jet & Tony didn't really need to be consulted - but I can confirm that they were both very happy re: previously unreleased material being issued. Nor do I wish to stir up controversy - but, as a historian, facts are facts. Let me just diplomatically put it this way: the majority of the Shadows are perfectly happy to see the release of unissued archive material.

As Jim Nugent rightly points out.....EMI (if they really wanted to) could put out anything that they wanted by the Shadows. The Shadows haven't been EMI artists since 1980 after all. Maybe things might change now that EMI have been subsumed by Universal -who knows? As we all know - there is still a healthy market for Shadows product and Universal / EMI should make the most of it in the next few years. As a long - term / lifelong Shadows fan - I started young - "Apache" being my first ever 45rpm purchase at the age of 8 in 1960. I don't like to dwell on it....but I'll soon be 60 (so I must be amongst the 'younger band' of lifelong Shadows fans from the early days). Hopefully (but you never know what life may throw at you) I might reach 'three score years and ten'(!!!). So....I would dearly love a comprehensive Shadows box set (or two!) sometime soon...before it's too late!!! LOL.

Bests....Rob

[GoldenStreet]

Well done for trying, Rob. There still must be some bad blood somewhere between the boys and EMI, although the company has not been exactly a happy place in recent times!

Bill

EMI has just been sold to Universal...

Didier

I imagine it's been reported, but what is likely to happen to Abbey Road (the studios located therein!)?

[hoffers]

Sadly EMI is no longer the company it used to be, I know because I've had dealings with them in licensing.
They haven't a clue what people really want and when I approached them for me to license tracks for a volume 2 of Instro Beat they didn't want to know, in fact they refused EVERY project I applied for because only a small pressing of 1000 units is not enough for the amount of work they have to put in.
Yeah right!! The company can't even locate its own masters. I had to tell them from 200 miles away in York where the stereo tape for Hank's London Not Too Far was for one of EMI's own projects. For Instro Beat I gave them timings, composer details, everything, so can't see where 'the amount of work' comes into it.
I knew about some Dakotas unissued titles and would have used those on Instro Beat 2, but was refused a licence. Along comes Tim Chacksfield who is freelance nowadays but used to work at EMI, calls me and asks which Dakotas tracks are unreleased as he was working on a Billy J Kramer/Dakotas set.
I told him what I knew and of course they all came out on the set. Did I get a thank you? Did I chuff!!!
That's what we are dealing with here. I actually have no time whatsoever for EMI and they deserve to be ripped off in my eyes because they don't pay artistes royalties and they, like most major labels, will not let a new small label get established by licensing it material. The Fentones and all those lesser known instro bands we know and love never received a penny from EMI.
Interestingly, the label was putting out Outlaws tracks here and there and were taken to court because they didn't actually own the rights to them anymore and it cost them several thousand pounds.

EMI to Universal is not a better option because people like Brian Berg at Universal always run things past Brian Goode and Hank and Bruce are not keen on archive releases as such so don't hold your breath.
Anyway, the tapes will probably get lost in transit come the day of the changeover.

Magic Records are supposed to be able to deal direct with EMI France so I often wonder why nothing of real interest has ever surfaced on that label? There's a whole load of Shadows unreleased items at EMI, try March of The Shadows, Life on Mars, first version of Foot Tapper, All Right Be That Way, Japan '67 concert and much more, all can be clearly identified on an EMI Tape Report. Magic just seem to 'borrow' from other releases like Shadows at Abbey Road instead of producing its own decent rarities package.

We'll see . . .

Hoffs

[Arpeggio]

Well said Tony!! Everything he says is true. I still feel sick about "The Shadows At The BBC". Like Tony with several of his projects - I put in over 100 hours worth of research on the project and didn't receive even 1p in return. Of course, it would have been nice to have been paid a research fee or something - but not receiving any payment nor even ANY acknowledgement whatsoever isn't the reason I feel sick about it....no it's because the CD was never released! Initially EMI wouldn't go ahead because they didn't know for certain which tracks might potentially be available for release. But.....they weren't prepared to pay anyone from their own company to do the research. Equally, the BBC's own archives at that time were also in chaos and they didn't have a complete listing of The Shadows BBC material. Tony will confirm that an initial list that they sent to us was riddled with errors and omissions. The BBC weren't prepared to pay any members of their staff to do the reserach either. So, I did it all for free. Not that I didn't enjoy it. Of course I did. But...it was extremely painstaking and time consuming. I remember my wife being absolutely furious when I passed on the results of my researches (subsequently published in "Shadsfax") to both the BBC and EMI. I can tell you now that, after I'd done all of that work for EMI I was subsequently ignored and treated like ****. I won't pretend that didn't hurt at the time. When the project stalled I wondered if EMI had gone cold on the idea and suggested to John Reed (then at Sanctuary) that (if EMI had pulled out - because they kept me totally in the dark) - might Sanctuary be interested in taking up the idea? Within a day or two after that i was astonished to receive a communication from EMI informing me that I had no business discussing this with John Reed and, should I continue in this vein, they would have no hesitation in starting legal action against me!!!!!!!!

After a year or two it became clear that it was the BBC themselves who blocked the release (the stumbling point being the potential use of the 'back up' masters made by the late Bernie Andrews. What priceless tapes they are...as the BBC had trashed their own tape archive for the period 1958 -1963!!!!!!). Those tapes were subsequently acquired to John Beecher at Rollercoaster Records. I tried to persuade both EMI to reactivate the project shortly before the Shadows toured in 2004 and 2005 and again when they toured with Cliff during 2009 / 10. But....of course...nothing happened. I hope John Beecher puts the material out on CD asap. So you see, everyone....this is what we've been up against all of these years.

Rob

PS: Tony.....genuinely sorry that we can't get to hear some of that fantastic Instrumentals material for the same short - sighted reasons.

[iefje]

Sadly EMI is no longer the company it used to be, I know because I've had dealings with them in licensing.
They haven't a clue what people really want and when I approached them for me to license tracks for a volume 2 of Instro Beat they didn't want to know, in fact they refused EVERY project I applied for because only a small pressing of 1000 units is not enough for the amount of work they have to put in.
Yeah right!! The company can't even locate its own masters. I had to tell them from 200 miles away in York where the stereo tape for Hank's London Not Too Far was for one of EMI's own projects. For Instro Beat I gave them timings, composer details, everything, so can't see where 'the amount of work' comes into it.
I knew about some Dakotas unissued titles and would have used those on Instro Beat 2, but was refused a licence. Along comes Tim Chacksfield who is freelance nowadays but used to work at EMI, calls me and asks which Dakotas tracks are unreleased as he was working on a Billy J Kramer/Dakotas set.
I told him what I knew and of course they all came out on the set. Did I get a thank you? Did I chuff!!!
That's what we are dealing with here. I actually have no time whatsoever for EMI and they deserve to be ripped off in my eyes because they don't pay artistes royalties and they, like most major labels, will not let a new small label get established by licensing it material. The Fentones and all those lesser known instro bands we know and love never received a penny from EMI.
Interestingly, the label was putting out Outlaws tracks here and there and were taken to court because they didn't actually own the rights to them anymore and it cost them several thousand pounds.

EMI to Universal is not a better option because people like Brian Berg at Universal always run things past Brian Goode and Hank and Bruce are not keen on archive releases as such so don't hold your breath.
Anyway, the tapes will probably get lost in transit come the day of the changeover.

Magic Records are supposed to be able to deal direct with EMI France so I often wonder why nothing of real interest has ever surfaced on that label? There's a whole load of Shadows unreleased items at EMI, try March of The Shadows, Life on Mars, first version of Foot Tapper, All Right Be That Way, Japan '67 concert and much more, all can be clearly identified on an EMI Tape Report. Magic just seem to 'borrow' from other releases like Shadows at Abbey Road instead of producing its own decent rarities package.

We'll see . . .

Hoffs

This whole situation at EMI Records sounds like the general attitude of their employees being 'couldn't care less'. The problem is that the recordings we're interested in are from an era in which most current EMI or Universal employees weren't even born, so they have absolutely no connection with them and cannot see the value and importance they really have. Also, and this could offend people, I think it's the typical attitude of an average manager: only interested in quantity in terms of time and money and not the criterium which really matters: QUALITY.

[Pat Seaman]

This might sound like sour grapes.........probably because it is. EMI management were a shower of '........' what Rob said.
As an ex record retailer, from the 70's and 80's, who had, of necessity, to deal with EMI Records, it saddens me to see what a total mess they have made of their back-catalogue assets. Their downfall was just a matter of time.
The EMI Master catalogue was full of top-class artists and music, but, for some unknown reason, much of it was ignored by their management.
On a lighter note, there was a misprint in the Master Catalogue for at least 6 years...............The Deep Purple album, 'Burn' was listed in at least 2 editions as 'BUM'. You can see how it happened, but EMI never corrected it.

Pat.

[hoffers]

EMI were always 'users' and got in touch when they wanted help with sleevenotes or EP covers, pictures of The Shadows etc, etc.
It was so frustrating trying to get an answer from the licensing dept, it always took them six months just to say no.
They hoped I'd go away but I didn't.

Sony are also crap as I discovered when I tried to license a Duane Eddy LP which had been issued by GTO (now owned by Sony). Even though I informed them about a US company bootlegging it they still wouldn't officially license to me and eventually BGO Records brought it out. There excuse is that they only now license to established companies which means a new label can never get established while the companies adhere to this silly policy.
I even offered to pay the advance AND the quarterly royalties up front.
So my friends even when you try and do everything within the law you hit a brick wall.

Hoffs

[GoldenStreet]

Global conglomeratism - is there any hope for mankind?

[d jones]

Hi All

This companies are destined to go the way of the dinosaur, and the sooner the better! why do they keep on treating the public like sheep telling us what to listen to by controlling radio and tv and limiting what is available. As for royalites as a DJ i now have to have 3 licences PPL, PRS and a PRO DUB. hope this makes it's way to the artists and not adding to the CEO Christmas fund. I feel so sorry for Rob and Tony for all their hard work over the years and i'am totally disgusted with the crass atitude of the music companies who's staff are probably all twenty somethings trying to educate us on our musical tastes. A recent poll also had the result showing that the top touring acts were in their 50's to 70's!

Pink Floyd stated We don't need no education!
Up the revolution, now back to my tent in St Pauls Square.
Dave

PS I have had a visit from PRS who sit with you all night logging down the music played, telling me it's so we PRS can distribute the royalities to the correct artists. I had a wonderful night Playing Elvis, Buddy Holly and loads of artists who sadly are no longer with us but at least there estates benefited from the night.

[cockroach]

I recall reading an interview with Hank and Bruce in a magazine, years ago, where the interviewer asked them about whether any unreleased Shadows recordings may ever be released.

The answer was:


'..when the plane goes down...'

You can bet that this will be the case with the record companies - as when Elvis Presley died, and someone remarked...'Good career move...'