WATKINS COPICAT GOLD demos . . . NOW AVAILABLE

[Amanda]

Hi all,

Superb, if I'd got the spare cash, that's what I'd go for!

Looks like you and Alan have cracked it Dave, is this the same Alan as
the one who has a drum Vox / Meazzi?

Some info on it would be nice for my Meazzi site!

I've got a few irons in the fire regarding Meazzi's at the moment!

Amanda

[BarryH]

Sounds good, but at £875 (introductory offer of £100 off), it's a bit pricey.

'Pricey' doesn't even come close!
Maybe I'm living in the past when it comes down to what does or doesn't appear expensive, for even if it were half that amount I'd still be severely twitching in the wallet department. At a more reasonable (to me) price, surely there would be more potential buyers - or does everyone think the normal full £975 cost acceptable for an echo unit, albeit a good one?
Maybe its because of the investment incurred and they need to recover this and show a reasonable profit, but sadly it's well out of my reach, no matter the reasoning behind it's price structuring. I suppose you either can or can't afford something and that's that.

Martyn,

Everything is relative, compared to the TVS, this is quite cheap, compared to a Q20 and the cost of Charlies patches it's not unreasonable.

Regarding expensive, there are players on this site and other Shads sites that have spent over £200 for a MagicStomp that originally cost in the £70 bracket.

Cheers
Barry

[David Martin]

How does £315 sound?

The Line6 M13 Stompbox Modeller will allow you to create echo machines with four (and with some jiggery pokery even more ...) heads, tube driven, with infinitely variable head spacings, tube drive, wow and flutter, decay, regeneration and individual head volumes... so you could easily have three different foot switchable vintage echo boxes with foot switchable heads on the floor in front of you... (and you can have that 12 times over, or use the other locations for reverb, distortion, compression, modulation (chorus, tremelo, phase, flange) and a built in tuner...

How does it sound? Good to my ears... When I get round to learning how to use my new Zoom recorder, I'll post some clips (or maybe get Robbo to record them... quicker!) but don't wait around for me to do it...

[Bojan]

You know Martyn I think I'm living in the past also as regard to prices and wages,when I ask my Sons how much they earn I nearly fall off my chair, a friend came around yesterday and I said you look worn out he said when i came off my shift yesterday they asked me to stay on for one more to cover sick crew, but i got £400 for doing it, what I thought, but to him it was the norm, so to him this Echo Unit would be under a week's wage.........Thats why maybe we both need to catch up on the value of stuff, and what surplus cash people have to spend these days, I wish I could be part of it still !

. . . either that, or ask your son to buy you a Watkins for Christmas!

[Martyn]

Martyn,

Everything is relative, compared to the TVS, this is quite cheap, compared to a Q20 and the cost of Charlies patches it's not unreasonable.

Regarding expensive, there are players on this site and other Shads sites that have spent over £200 for a MagicStomp that originally cost in the £70 bracket.

Cheers
Barry[/color]

Hi Barry,
I don't disagree and at £2200 (approx) the TVS3 is even further out of the question on my income. I paid £150 for my Magicstomp so I'm aware it cost me twice the original new price but is the TVS3 more than fourteen times better in terms of accuracy or quality of echoes? I realise one cannot always look upon these things in simple terms of pound for pound comparison, but I have to draw the line somewhere.
Am I getting the sounds I want from my M/stomp and TonelabST? Well yes, up to a point. Would the Copicat or TVS3 sound better? They each probably would - I was never criticising them for their sound accuracy or quality of tone - it's just that I can't get past the cost thing. At the prices asked they flaming well should sound a whole lot better, but by how much?
If money were no object, I'd still struggle to convince myself or 'my little acid drop' they'd be worth the investment of our hard earned family funds.

Hi David - I'll be intrigued to hear how you get on with that Line 6 item. I did a quick Google search and the YouTube demos it found showed the device being used to create the usual heavy metal stuff (yet again . . . ) and I didn't find any that suggested how it might sound for the gentler material we favour. If you're able to post a few clips as you indicated, at some stage, that would be most welcome.

To summarise, I'm trying not to sound as though I'm a natural skinflint but I do find it difficult coming to terms with my income not keeping apace with my purchasing ambitions. I guess I'm just a bit envious of those who appear not to wince at all when hearing how much some things seem to cost. Oh bum - I really have finally turned into a Victor Meldrew . . .

Regards to all,
Martyn

[BarryH]

Hi Martyn,

As this is Dave's thread about the Copicat demos being available, I purposely didn't mention how other units compare, just the prices.

He's been good enough to do and post all the demos and I think we all say thanks for that.

Cheers
Barry

[dave robinson]

It's OK to debate folks, that's what the forum is for. In my opinion and that of Alan Jackson (yes he does own the Meazzi/Vox drum echo) who set the head timings etc, the Copicat Gold sounds 'right' when I play the tunes and compare with Hank's old sound, but so do many of the other units on offer to an extent. I can't fault the TVS3 apart from it's hefty price tag in the UK and I can't fault the Copicat Gold either though it too is expensive. My Magicstomp (which incidentally were originally priced at £199) does a great job as did my Quad GT for many years, but the small difference that I hear in the Copicat Gold and TVS3 and the ESE Echomatic is the difference between perfection and NEARLY perfection. Whether or not we think it's worth the expense is surely in the ear of the beholder, but the sound pleases me

[Martyn]

Hi Martyn,
As this is Dave's thread about the Copicat demos being available, I purposely didn't mention how other units compare, just the prices.
He's been good enough to do and post all the demos and I think we all say thanks for that.
Cheers
Barry

I heartily concur, because without these demos how else can we form any logical conclusions? If I had access to an assortment of gear I'd do the same as I find such helpful information extremely useful and I'm all for encouraging anyone with the facilities to do as Dave's done.
Whether or not I can afford it is down to me but I trust nobody minds me expressing certain financial misgivings. As Dave says, forums are by their very nature places for discussion and debate - and of course the justification of any expenditure is always going to be a personal decision.

Regards,
Martyn

[dave robinson]

Since I had the Copicat Gold here, which is now back with Charlie Watkins, I did some A/B tests with it against my other echo boxes. The echo patches weren't the issue as they are all accurate, but the way the electronics affect the tone of the guitar is important when trying to get the early Shads tone.

I compared against my Quad GT, Magicstomp, RFX2000, Zoom G71ut and the ESE Echomatic. Tonewise the only one that matched the Copicat Gold was the ESE Echomatic (as well as the TVS3 , of which I still have my samples ) and although the others are certainly useable, the difference in guitar tone is the difference between perfection and 'not quite perfection' - which matters to me, as I said earlier that being able to hear the guitar sounding exactly like those early records really pleases me. I once had an old multi head Dynacord machine that gave the correct tone, but sadly the echo patterns were not appropiate and I sold it on. I suppose some will say that the difference in tone is marginal, but it is enough for me to want it right. I fully understand where Justin is coming from and if a Meazzi was available I would want it - at the right price - but they are very scarce and I believe that this new machine, the Copicat Gold, is an option to get the Meazzi tone, as are the TVS3 and ESE Echomatic. All are expensive options I know, but people who have come around here and heard me use the TVS3, ESE and Copicat Gold have all agreed that this is THAT SOUND.

Just out of curiosity on Wednesday evening, I took my Watkins IC400 Copicat to the gig and it blew the Magicstomp out of the water for tone. I know that the echo patterns are 'wrong' but they sounded better than the Magicstomp's correct patterns and many people commented on the great sound during the evening. I can't believe that I started with a humble Copicat in 1963, Vox AC30 and a Strat and I have gone full circle after spending a f******g fortune. . . . . . . . .

[David Martin]

Great, Dave... I loved my Copicat too in the '60s and I never even realised the echo spacings were "wrong" and neither did anyone else!!

Up for a spot of recording in a week or so?