copyright

[buckshot]

G'day fellow Shads fanatics
I need a bit of advice here if I may. I have had my bands version of The Savage muted off youtube with a red warning of a copyright infrigement. Anyone had this before and how can I find out who owns the song the make a redress of the situation?
Cheers
Buckshot

[MeBHank]

Hi Tom...

Sorry to hear this. You are not alone, I'm afraid. It may be a more serious problem than we realise. It would seem that somebody is trying to claim ownership of the audio tracks of all video versions of The Savage that appear on YouTube!

Lee Restarick has had the same issue with his own "Cardboard Box" version (see http://shadowmusic.bdme.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8208). He said YouTube had informed him that the claim had been made by Warner/Chappell Music, Inc. I assume these are the same people that have requested that your video be muted. I have just checked a few other videos of The Savage. Phil McGarrick's videos of the Shadowers' performance of The Savage at Shadowmania 2012 has been muted. So has the video of Bruce Welch's Shadows 2011 Shadowmania performance. Likewise the home-recorded versions of various Shads fans, such as Lee. Believe it or not, so has the video of Hank and Ben playing the tune at Hank's clinic held in Italy during the late 1990s! If this goes on, I can quite imagine every YouTube cover version of this piece of music being muted. Who knows where this might end? The restriction of all Shadows-related videos on the internet? That would be awful.

Due to the confusing issue of which music publishing companies own which music publishing companies, I am unsure whether Warner/Chappell even own the rights to the tune. But if they do own the copyrights to the Shadows' recordings of The Savage, their ownership does not extend beyond that version. Any version recorded and/or performed by guitarists, tribute bands, etc, is owned solely by the musicians featured in that version and no-one else. As I understand, even EMI/Sony/Polygram/Polydor/Universal (between whom the official Shadows recordings of 1961 and 1989 are owned - as I said, clear as mud!) do not have any say over the copyrights of any recordings or videos of The Savage other than the specific version/s that they own. I believe that not even the person/company who owns the rights to Norrie Paramor's royalties for writing the piece does not have this sort of power over its use. What next? Will they ban everyone from even performing the tune anywhere?

I really can't understand this. I'm even willing to entertain the idea that it's not Warner/Chappell making the claims (why would they?). I know that sounds far-fetched, but so does every other explanation I can think of. If Warner/Chappell genuinely are behind this, they need to seriously get a life. Surely there are serial pirates and bootleggers out there who deserve this sort of treatment over a few enthusiasts who like to play and share cover versions of their favourite tunes. They really do have much, much bigger fish to fry. If it is them, I think it's disgusting.

For now, as Lee did, use YouTube's dispute process and that should get the sound restored, although, as Lee said, I'm not sure if this will solve the problem for you once-and-for-all.

Some detective work is needed and someone needs to contact YouTube. I have some spare time at the moment so I will look into it, contact a few people and see what I can learn/do. This issue will affect a fair few members of this website, so if anyone wishes to contact me with questions, information or suggestions (especially YouTube-related suggestions) please feel free to contact me via PM here or by the email address listed below.

I'll keep you informed.

J

[Spike]

Hi Chaps

I too have been issued with a copyright breach for a tune called Tomahawk that Mitch Mitchinson produced.
The joke is this tune was given to Gary Taylor to record on a TVS3 with full permission from Mitch.
4 shared told me that if I wanted to dispute this I would have to address their agent.
I did this and I still havent heard back from them.

I was told that if I removed that track I would be granted public access but I declined on principle.

I have written untold emails to 4 shared and their representing agent and told them how disgraceful this was to ban public sharing without a warning and without proper substance.

More soon
Spike

[Shadoogie]

Seems this issue is growing big time.

Videos taken at our Shadows club are being ordered to be taken down.

[Didier]

G'day fellow Shads fanatics
I need a bit of advice here if I may. I have had my bands version of The Savage muted off youtube with a red warning of a copyright infrigement. Anyone had this before and how can I find out who owns the song the make a redress of the situation?
Cheers
Buckshot

"The Savage" was composed by Norrie Paramor, the composer's rights are now owned by his inheritors.
You can find many versions of "The savage" on Youtube, including the extract from the film "The Young Ones" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAheCG0lKU0

Better indicate "cover version by ..." when you post something on Youtube.

Didier

[Martin Page]

Quiff and The Shades' version of The Savage has been muted also.

Martin

[JimN]

If I recall correctly, the publishing rights to "The Savage" and "Peace Pipe" were first held by Harms-Witmark (1961). Under UK copyright law there is currently no copyright in those recordings, but composer rights won't expire until 50 years after Norrie's death, which I recall as having been in 1979.

[George Geddes]

There are two sets of rights involved here - the music and the performance. In the UK, the latter would be administered by either the Performing Rights Society (for, you guessed it, performances) or MCPS (for recordings). I'm fairly certain that much of the YouTube footage has not been logged with MCPS and therefore the holder of the copyright for the music would be justified - in the legal sense - is requesting its removal.

Without digging out the sheet music, I'm fairly certain that the copyright for all the music from 'The young ones' was held by Associated British Picture Corporation (ABPC) who commissioned it and presumably is now held by a successor which could be Warner Chappell.

I'm a bit rusty on this stuff nowadays so if any working muso knows different, I will stand corrected.

George

[hbmartin]

Hi Tom...


Due to the confusing issue of which music publishing companies own which music publishing companies, I am unsure whether Warner/Chappell even own the rights to the tune. But if they do own the copyrights to the Shadows' recordings of The Savage, their ownership does not extend beyond that version. Any version recorded and/or performed by guitarists, tribute bands, etc, is owned solely by the musicians featured in that version and no-one else.

J

That is wrong. The musician recording the song does not SOLELY own it. Whoever records the tune owns the copyright in their recording only, not the copyright in the song. The copyright in the composition is always controlled by the publisher, no matter who creates the recording. If you add the recorded music to pictures you are required to obtain a synchronisation licence from the publisher.

[GoldenStreet]

The publishing copyright of The Savage and Peace Pipe is controlled by EMI Film and Theatre Music Ltd. (a subsidiary of EMI Music Publishing), now part of the Sony/ATV Publishing group, since the breakup of the EMI Group last year.

Bill