neck pocket stress fracture

[Bazgra43]

At the risk of covering old ground and as a new owner, why do I see (Mainly on E-bay) so many current burns guitars with a short stress fracture on the upper horn side of the neck pocket. Is it anything to do with the operation of the truss rod. I've never seen any other Strat style guitar with a similar problem . Baz

[chas]

If you mean a crack in the wood, I don't think I've ever seen that on a Burns (other than 'accident' damage where the neck screws can break and the neck pocket can suffer), though I've seen plenty of lacquer/paint cracks on Fenders, which I've put down to the neck being a tight fit in the pocket, and the paint can't flex with the wood.
I would say all of the cracks I've seen have been purely in the finish, and of no consequence.

Chas.

[Bazgra43]

Hi Chas... Just seems strange that its always in the same place. Theres a Marquee on E-bay now with a very clear photo. The guy says that it was that way when he bought it sometime ago and hasn't worsened. I've seen two in the flesh myself including a Dream Gold with exactly the same flaw. just seems very odd to me. Bazz

[anniv 63]

As Chas mentioned,the most common fault is the slight cracking and paint blemish in this area.
My early numbered 2004 Anniversary Marvin has this issue that appeared a few months after purchase.
Its not worsened over time, and is a minute blemish on this otherwise excellent instrument.

Mike

[Alan Prudhoe]

This is the crack on mine (No 190) . Obviously just in the lacquer and it never alters.

Marvin crack2.jpg

(371.52 KiB) Downloaded 11059 times

[bob t]

This was a known fault on the Anniversary models and why the neck pocket was altered on later batches of the 2004 release
and was even offered as a modification on ones already released. I decided to keep mine as was so that it was authentic and true to the original Marvin which I believe also had this crack

[Bazgra43]

Well whatever Barry Gibson did in 2004 to correct this problem hasn't been a total success because I've seen a brand new Dream gold model less than 2 months ago with the same problem. I'm put off a purchase of what is clearly a fine instrument because of this flaw which I feel must be caused by to tight tolerances or a lack of depth in the actual bodywork in this area. Its reassuring to know that these cracks do not spread but on an instrument costing £13-1400 its disconcerting. Baz

[bor64]

I bought two at the time no 61 and 62,(gave no 61 to a friend)...both guitars have the vintage correct neckpocket
The change on the neck pocket ,puzzled me...... Barry Gibson decided that after a few complaints from some owners about "cracked" paint
News flash for all the sissy's .... an original vintage Burns Marvin has the crack also...so how about, going all the way to have it vintage correct
A Burns Marvin with a strat like neck outfit, doesn't rattle my cage So when i phoned Barry to ask if i could order a greenburst 40th anniversary, he told me that they all have the strat neckpocket
So i ask Barry to build me a British made Marvin in greenburst , just for the color because I already had 3 Marvins in white ( 65 original-1980 and the 40th)all of them have now the correct minor crack in the neckpocket so the ones with the correct neckpocket are a chip of the old block

This is what i wrote a long time ago about this subject,all my Marvin's have the crack.
It doesn't effect the sound,feel,construction and the stability of the neck.... so only if you look closly you can find the minor crack!
Funny enough my original 64 Double Six is without paintcrack in the neckpoket....

Tin hat in place

[51 Relic]

Reading this with intrest .
My Legend Custom Deluxe has no stress cracking to the neck pocket after 13 years ,but i know that my Drifter when it was owned by my friend the 1st owner had to be repaired soon after purchase due to paint cracking in the Strat style neck pocket

[Pink Panther]

Quote: "At the risk of covering old ground and as a new owner, why do I see (Mainly on E-bay) so many current burns guitars with a short stress fracture on the upper horn side of the neck pocket. Is it anything to do with the operation of the truss rod. I've never seen any other Strat style guitar with a similar problem"


Hi! I'm new here. A life long Shadows fan, and something of a Guitar & Musical Instrument Enthusiast.

Great to see Burns Guitars about once again. I tried a 12 String the other week at Guitar Village in Farnham. Nice to meet you all!

In the Music Business since I began work, ended up as a Professional Musician/Musical Director. Having got Married however, I settled down within Manufacturing Industry, wherein I have none the less worked with far more Musical Projects than ever, over the years. I'm very interested in Composing, Orchestration, Musical Recording, and using Studio Equipment, Musical Instrument Making and Repairing. Appreciating how Sound travels and works throughout Concert Halls and Buildings (even Studios) made from different materials. I find all these interests, actively dovetail somewhat. Enough of me, but I just wanted to say "Hello" to everyone.



No, this is nothing to do with the operation of the Truss Rod.

This is a problem that occurs from time to time with many Great Guitar Manufacturers and is seen in Guitar & Bass Type's that utilise a similar neck pocket. Fender and Ernie Ball Music Man included.

The reasons such cracks occur (and they vary in type and cause) are extremely difficult to pin down precisely, even for a Manufacturer who is having a problem with them occurring. I just wrote a piece for the Stratocaster Forum and have tried to put things so that the most common cause is understood by Players, and also the reasons from a Manufacturers perspective. Companies like Fender, Music Man and Burns, usually have some type of Technical Dept. But nothing like the resources available where I am, so I hope the information will prove to be helpful, all round, to everyone.


Here's the piece I wrote for folks at Fender.

Quote: "The neck pocket, by the way, is ALWAYS a stress point for finishes"

It's for sure that I always pick up any type of ash or heavier bodied Guitar or Bass by its body or both horns when removing it and replacing it into its case etc.

I always try to avoid like the plague the ergonomically natural thing to do, pick it up by its neck. This is guaranteed to place greatest stress upon the neck pocket area, resulting in this problem.
Considering I have some extremely heavy Guitars and Basses, perhaps some of the heaviest ever manufactured, yet have entirely avoided any such incidence of this problem over many, many decades, I believe the problem is an avoidable one, but requires consciousness of the potential for damage, a best practise procedure, and avoiding allowing "friends" to handle the Instrument willy nilly. The manner in which how and where the Instrument is held, at certain vulnerable times, will govern, the exact location the crack occurs, outwardly from the neck pocket, usually happening eventually, after many such occurrences

In my opinion, it is most often caused by a very marginal, slightly increased build up of material where finish has been applied to the inside of the top horn, the inside of the bottom horn, The top face and bottom face and around the neck pocket underside where the fitting of a slave ensures it is manhandled during spraying and is an obstruction to be sprayed around, a common "gravity magnet", and is likely to ensure something of a slight build up of material at that point where coats from many differing directions actively converge.

Thicker than normal material + stress point + the bolt on neck back plate, body, neck combined stresses cause a crack at the weakest point involving all these differing materials, the top horn to neck pocket could also encounter additional stress from straps by virtue of the manner in which certain performers behave on stage. This combination accounts for the problem from a user perspective.

In my opinion it is most commonly, (but not exclusively) stress induced at a point, highly susceptible to excessive material build up. Lifting by the neck, secured to the body by bolt type screw, the stress happens at a point around where the stress is highest, that is, from the neck pocket outward.



I have one friend who loves jumping about as high as possible in the air on stage and landing in a squat with his instrument, and travels all over the world doing this and was actually in Japan doing it when the Nuclear Plant went haywire.

How you handle your Instrument on Stage may create additional stress, but hopefully not enough to cause an earthquake, tsunami and Major Incident. It may however be possible, I put it no stronger, that the manner in which your Instrument is handled at certain times, particularly if sudden fast changes to the temperature and humidity experienced by the Instrument, are in the process of occurring, where different Woods Material and Finish Material are Expanding or Contracting quickly, but at different rates simultaneously; because the Instrument has travelled from one environment, to another, to a third in a short space of time.

At such a point, the Instrument may then, suddenly become especially vulnerable. So special time and care is needed under those conditions.



If you bought a Martin Guitar by Mail Order in America, it would arrive in a Hard Case within a Strong Well Packed Cardboard outer box. You would be instructed not to open the box for twenty fours hours after the Instrument arrived, specifically to allow the woods and finish to acclimatise properly to the local environment. They have had whisker cracks from the finish in the tops near the bridges. Another stress point, but one for Acoustic Instruments.




Here is what causes cracking problem from a Manufacturing, Factory Facility and Material Supplier perspective.


Origin and Potential Causes:

Excessive film thickness.

Excessively thick topcoats magnify normal stresses and strains which can result in cracking even under normal conditions.

Materials not uniformly mixed.

Insufficient flash times between coats.

Incorrect use of additives.

Substrate is too hot or cold.

Use of coats incompatible with each other.

Omitting the activator when mixing a 2K product.



Prevention Techniques:

Don't pile on topcoats.

Allow sufficient flash and drying time between coats.

Do not dry by fanning with compressed air from the spray gun.

Stir all pigmented undercoats and topcoats thoroughly.

Read and carefully follow recommendations in the Technical Data Sheet(s).

Additives not specifically designed for a colour coat may weaken the final paint film and make it more sensitive to cracking.



Remedy

The affected areas must be sanded to a smooth finish, or in extreme cases removed down to the bare material, and a full refinish system reapplied.




It is a manufacturing issue, but one which is far more likely to occur to certain individuals by virtue of the manner in which they handle their Instruments.

Obviously, if there is a thick build up of material, the instrument is quickly exposed to strong changes in temperature and humidity gigging, where the wood and finish are expanding or contracting at varying rates, and stress is placed at those points, then this would create ideal conditions for the occurrence of such a problem.

I normally have between 2 - 6 Paint Reps from different Top Paint Companies on hand all the time, along with a Laboratory manned by specialists with Doctorates in this Field. They are looking at Paint issues with powerful microscopes for analysis all the time.

Hope this helps!



P