Backing tracks in live performance

Information about availability of backing tracks

Re: Backing tracks in live performance

Postby dave robinson » 29 Dec 2015, 22:01

Yes they were using tracks on the 2009 tour, BB had 'in ear' monitoring throughout to keep in sync. I thought it was realised and accepted by everyone. It was done that way to bring in Cliff's pre-recorded vocals should he be a bit hoarse. Apparrantly he had a signal that he gave to the soundman to bring the tracks in when needed. If you watch the DVD you can see Mark Griffiths is nowhere near the notes on his bass at the intro on 'Living Doll', also we noticed at the Sheffield concert that Brian counted in 'Move It' from a click track. I don't like the idea myself but it was most likely done to ensure the tour was completed without Cliff having to cry off some of the shows with a sore throat. We all know that they can do it live, so that has to be the reason.
It's also true that clubs were using self contained acts in order to undercut bands and get rid of their sub-standard backing. During 1979-80 the MU in Leicester was at war with me over backing tracks, as it was I who introduced the concept. I have the newspaper articles to this day with reports of the MU attacking me. There isn't a club in Leicester today with live backing, it's one time I hate being right over an argument, but the musicians were very poor.
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Re: Backing tracks in live performance

Postby tolo » 29 Dec 2015, 22:29

dave robinson wrote: Apparrantly he had a signal that he gave to the soundman to bring the tracks in when needed. If you watch the DVD you can see Mark Griffiths is nowhere near the notes on his bass at the intro on 'Living Doll', also we noticed at the Sheffield concert that Brian counted in 'Move It' from a click track


Call me naive - but I am shocked at this. I can understand mining and sequenced work at a 2009 Muse gig (for exanple) - but Cliff and the Shadows? What about the last anniversary tour Dave - was it happening then too?
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Re: Backing tracks in live performance

Postby dave robinson » 29 Dec 2015, 22:48

tolo wrote:
dave robinson wrote: Apparrantly he had a signal that he gave to the soundman to bring the tracks in when needed. If you watch the DVD you can see Mark Griffiths is nowhere near the notes on his bass at the intro on 'Living Doll', also we noticed at the Sheffield concert that Brian counted in 'Move It' from a click track


Call me naive - but I am shocked at this. I can understand mining and sequenced work at a 2009 Muse gig (for exanple) - but Cliff and the Shadows? What about the last anniversary tour Dave - was it happening then too?



No it was only used on the Cliff & Shadows 2009/10 tour. Cliff has used this for a long time now, I believe one of his vocal outfits quit over it years ago, but I don't have the full story.
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Re: Backing tracks in live performance

Postby Hank2k » 30 Dec 2015, 00:20

Hank played to the Un hank riders in the sky on one of the guest appearances he made with cliff. I think it was the 40th tour or millenium concert.
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Re: Backing tracks in live performance

Postby cockroach » 30 Dec 2015, 08:41

Justin

I've seen and heard you play, and my original remark on your other thread was mainly in jest- I just felt that with the high profile shows you have played (Shadowmania etc) that it was a bit strange that you needed to use backing tracks, but you also explained that you live off your earnings and needed the work and that it doing that way was the only way possible.

Once again, my apologies- and to everyone else- I did not mean to start an argument over this..

I don't have any personal 'rules' about me or other people doing this by the way- someone threw that comment in earlier...- it's just that I prefer playing with a band, rather than backing tracks- and on those occasions over the past few years when I've played a full Shadows music show, I've been very lucky to have been part of bands put together specifically for those gigs, who are experienced players and who know the Shads material intimately- and even more lucky that two of drummers I've played with were absolutely fantastic players and could go as far as emulating both Tony Meehan AND Brian Bennett! As we know, there are a lot of Hanks out there, and a few Bruces and Jets etc- but Tony and BB level drummers are very hard to find!

Seasons greetings and peace to all!
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Re: Backing tracks in live performance

Postby George Lewis » 30 Dec 2015, 09:23

Hi Justin,
I'm completely with you, though fortunately I have no need to entrust my living to being a pro muso.
Those who can, in my view are rare and exceptional (in their chosen field).

As a retirement "give back" I also do many semi-charity gigs at retirement and Nursing homes. Fortunately I have an ex drummer neighbour who can sing and is a natural exhibitionist. We use BT's and I accompany him when he sings and he uses brushes and a snare drum to stuff up my carefully crafted precision playing melodic guitar pieces !

Our interaction and joking is always enjoyed by the old (mostly) ladies and makes a pretty varied show. One big advantage is you can tell the same jokes each time ! Visually, having 2 different performers, vocals and instros and their interaction is more stimulating than a solo performer .. even one who can engage the audience.

I also have several Shadows "Hankless" tracks modified with "concert" endings. As you point out, live performances aren't helped by fade outs.
Not sure how fluent you are with audio editing software but it's quite possible to blend in other BT's eg UBHank or Tony Kiek etc with the Shad's to produce authentic BT's without fade outs.


Bands and playing with other musos is great .. sometimes.However apart from the top top outfits it's these days not a way to make a living.
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Re: Backing tracks in live performance

Postby JimN » 30 Dec 2015, 11:26

George Lewis wrote:Not sure how fluent you are with audio editing software but it's quite possible to blend in other BT's eg UBHank or Tony Kiek etc with the Shad's to produce authentic BT's without fade outs.


Indeed.

I have a "doctored" BT for Diamonds, which uses (serially):

(a) Tony's drum intro (from the Decca recording),

(b) the "UK Hank & Other Heroes" backing track for the guitar melody,

(c) back to the Decca record for the horn interlude (E - A - D - E - G/F# - E - A - D - E), running straight into Tony's original solo,

(d) back to the backing track for the next guitar melody section.

Editing the parts together was easy, though (of course) the Decca record file had to be digitally transposed to Em instead of Dm, without changing the tempo. Easy enough in Adobe Audition...
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Re: Backing tracks in live performance

Postby Allclaphands » 30 Dec 2015, 11:38

I have read through Justin's original posting again and can start to understand his position
when playing at a free Mic night and the members ask or request you play something they
want rather than something you had planned to play can be extremely difficult on the spur
of the moment to put together and give a quality performance.Playing to a BT is alright as
long as the BT is of a good quality I have yet to see or hear of a BT completely ruining a show
which might not be the case with the players performance.Miming that's another thing altogether
specially at a paying performance where the punters are not told or informed its just deception
Special when the act is billed as LIVE.If when performing at a venue the proper information is giving
beforehand regarding everything wether a solo artist a duo ect with BT or a live Band and the
music/tunes you can expect what is the problem it's after all entertainment for those wanting to
come and pay and listen to it that's why it is organised and put together ect.I say GOOD LUCK to Justin
In trying to make a income out of things in what or which way he can as he said in this posting how
difficult it is in recruiting the members of a Band and the rehearsing ect and getting the time together
and the planing ect.Where as a solo act he can just go it alone with in his own way.

Pete
Last edited by Allclaphands on 30 Dec 2015, 12:58, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Backing tracks in live performance

Postby Stratpicker » 30 Dec 2015, 12:21

noelford wrote:Of course, the ultimate live-music killer has to be the Disco.


Quite so. And Audience Killer.
In September I played a 30 min Set of old and modern Shads and Hank at a wedding. Appx 70 guests in the Ballroom, mixed age range. Went off nicely. 5 minutes after I finished, the Disco came on, the Volume went up at least 100%, at least 40 guests then made a mass exodus to the Bar to escape the noise - and basically never went back in, leaving a few under 30s to it.
Surely not what was planned by the happy couple, but that's what happened.
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Re: Backing tracks in live performance

Postby Iain Purdon » 30 Dec 2015, 17:40

tolo wrote:Call me naive - but I am shocked at this. I can understand mining and sequenced work at a 2009 Muse gig (for exanple) - but Cliff and the Shadows?


Yes, if you watch Mountains of the Moon on the 2004 Final Tour DVD, BB is wearing headphones throughout. And there is an exchanged laugh between him and Cliff Hall near the start when Cliff's hands come down late for a crash on the keyboard. It's obvious there's a track playing.

In an earlier Hank solo tour it was pretty clear to me in the audience that The Good The Bad and The Ugly was being heavily enhanced by a backing track. Along with lighting effects and smoke machines I just see it as part of putting on a show and making sure it goes right.
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