Guitar Question

[br1vittorio]

Ciao Dave, many thanks for your detailed answer!
Now I know more about that man....!
You did not tell me anything about my question about the book....I will try a little bit more (being an Aries I do tend to weaken nearly all my temporary "manias") to possibly get it without having to spend a fortune...I did email the english author(the Abbey Road recording engineer) but he did not reply, maybe he has changed his email or he's died and also the other italian author probably will not be able to help me....provided he's still alive!
It remains the impression that Roberto was very sympathetic and stubborn....a good example of a thoroughbred...tuscan man!
I am glad that you had a very nice time in Italy.
Please feel free to ask me all you should wish or need. it will be a pleasure.

All the best

Bruno

[dave robinson]

Ciao Dave, many thanks for your detailed answer!
Now I know more about that man....!
You did not tell me anything about my question about the book....I will try a little bit more (being an Aries I do tend to weaken nearly all my temporary "manias") to possibly get it without having to spend a fortune...I did email the english author(the Abbey Road recording engineer) but he did not reply, maybe he has changed his email or he's died and also the other italian author probably will not be able to help me....provided he's still alive!
It remains the impression that Roberto was very sympathetic and stubborn....a good example of a thoroughbred...tuscan man!
I am glad that you had a very nice time in Italy.
Please feel free to ask me all you should wish or need. it will be a pleasure.

All the best

Bruno

The short answer to your question about why he wrote the book and made those claims is, that having bought a Fender Strat, Vox AC30 and Meazzi Echo box, he couldn't make the same sound as the Shadows recordings. He began to do some research and discovered that Hank had owned the Gretsch 6122 and it went from there. I also know of a guy who knew Hank back in Newcastle, who told the story that Hank had said he used the Gretsch on Apache, which to him explained why none of the guys in Newcastle could get the sound. That said and knowing Mr Marvin's sense of humour, he was taking the piss by saying that , as at the time as they were all old musician friends back in the day before the Shadows were famous. We too knew the story and quickly realised that it was said in jest.
Sadly, Roberto took it serously and the book was written and published. I have a copy that Roberto gave to me and signed and there are some useful bits of information in there, but although I had a similar Gretsch guitar and did get very close to the sound, It was never the same sound as those records. Most guitars will sound pretty close through the Vox AC15 or AC 30 as long as it has the EF86 circuit on board.
I hope this gives you some kind of answer to your question.

[br1vittorio]

Sorry, I did write a long answer but it disappeared!
I will try and make it again later, for the time being many thanks for your further useful info.
All seen (in the web) and considered...I have the impression that, all other things being equal, most is due to the equalizer.
I have seen and listened to Youtube Ronnie Gustafsson and as far as I could follow his explanations...it all was clear!
In the end Roberto work was beneficial as it caused a lot of work to find,,,"That Sound!"
All the best.
Bruno

[Iain Purdon]

The thing that strikes me most is how we all hear differently. One good pair of ears reckons a sound is very close, another equally fine pair reckons it is markedly different. Identifying it can't be easy or there wouldn't be the endless quest and debate.
My other thought is that just because you can assemble a particular set of kit to produce a sound you think is right does not mean you've hit on the only way to do it.
If Hank and Bruce say it was a Fender Stratocaster, it is highly likely that it was. Why on earth would they pretend?

[RogerF]

Last night at the Hankies my combination was an original Vox AC15 from 1963, Valve Eccamatic and strat.
Blinkin eck, talk about that sound, brilliant.
Must take the Grestch next week.

It's posts like this that make it so sad that there is no "like" button on the forum! LOL

I've been playing Shads stuff live on stage for around 30 years and also tried to get "that sound" with my Gretsch Anniversary but failed miserably.
"That sound" just isn't, sorry - wasn't - generated by Filtertron humbuckers and an AC 15 or any other amp. The sounds are SO diverse it beggars belief.

[JimN]

I've been playing Shads stuff live on stage for around 30 years and also tried to get "that sound" with my Gretsch Anniversary but failed miserably.
"That sound" just isn't, sorry - wasn't - generated by Filtertron humbuckers and an AC 15 or any other amp. The sounds are SO diverse it beggars belief.

You won't get That Sound with any gear - not even with a Strat - without some form of precisely-targeted low-frequency attenuation.

The sound on the record is simply not just the sound of a guitar (whichever guitar), an echo unit and an amplifier.

The microphone plays a part (the studio used expensive mikes whose prices make SM57s seem like toys). Compression plays a big part (those valve-powered Fairchild Limiter units have a unique sound) and the EQ (Telefunken per channel) is a huge part of the sound.

There are ways to achieve some of it, live on stage, but not all of it.

[Pierre TEODORI]

I agree with Jim's comment.
Regards
Pierre

[br1vittorio]

I am really enjoying all the answers given to explain, at least to a some extent, why...that book came out....!
I am not a musician, I only enjoy and recognize good music and good artists.
Certainly the hardware helps very much....how to explain otherwise Santo & Johnny huge success (at least here in Italy)....with their Fender steel guitar?
But the player skill is the other unique ingredient to make a wonderful music performance....just a few examples that come to my mind:
- Evening shadows (Acker Bilk)
. Murder she said (Ron Goodwin)
- Blowin' in the wind (Stan Getz)
- Lift to the scaffold (Miles Davis)
- Cherry pink and apple blossom white (Chet Baker)
Thanks to everybody once more.....hope to read the book sooner or later!
Bruno

[David Martin]

The thing that strikes me most is how we all hear differently. One good pair of ears reckons a sound is very close, another equally fine pair reckons it is markedly different. Identifying it can't be easy or there wouldn't be the endless quest and debate.
My other thought is that just because you can assemble a particular set of kit to produce a sound you think is right does not mean you've hit on the only way to do it.
If Hank and Bruce say it was a Fender Stratocaster, it is highly likely that it was. Why on earth would they pretend?

This is the most significant post in the entire thread. What each person actually perceives as "that sound" depends entirely on their ears, and, being natural, ears vary, as do the brains processing the signal from them. Thus "one man's meat is another man's poisson..."

[br1vittorio]

What a kind of reply.....believe me...meat is not fish...to a good ...connoisseur!
Of course I knew people who liked Coca Cola with it....a white wine...is another thing!
Moreover we all probably did not take into consideration the fact that if someone...is convinced of...his believe....there is...no way!
Thanks for keeping The Shadows Flame...alive!
Just listened this night to some other wonderful guitarists like Tony Mottola, George Benson, Wes Montgomery and...Jose Feliciano!
All the best to you all.
Bruno